Maf Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 Then Ori, Journey and Outer Wilds need to come off my list. Which actually hurts my list a lot they are easily the top 3 games that I like the most that I would have thought of as indie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-armed dwarf Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 Oh you're right, Outer Wilds isn't indie. Tbh the term has sort of become useless imo. AA is better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinymcshine Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 Maybe the 'indie' term is more relevant to the size* of the developer rather than the publisher ? (* and ownership?) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfnick Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 2 hours ago, Maf said: Just because something isn't mainstream or openly corporate is not automatically better. That's some try hard, stick it to the man shit. I just want to say that is absolutely not my take on it. I generally just prefer indie games. Im just genuinely tired of a lot of AAA games. They feel like work to me a lot of the time. & indie games are usually a lot shorter. One of the biggest turn offs for me is a game that’s over 15 hours. Obviously there’s exceptions & my absolute favourites tend to be AAA games such as Last of Us. But I’d take a “indie” over the vast majority of AAA games these days. Saying that, I am including just smaller games in my take here, not just indie games. But ones with indie sensibilities, including ones published by big companies such as Ori, Trials etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-armed dwarf Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 20 minutes ago, shinymcshine said: Maybe the 'indie' term is more relevant to the size* of the developer rather than the publisher ? (* and ownership?) But the term literally means independent though I dunno, it's weird and confusing Anyway I'm not gonna police labelling. 'Eurojank', there's another term I like, mostly used to describe cheaper but often very ambitious games that aren't even made in europe lol. I agree with mfnick that budget can have inverse correlation to creativity (specifically WRT creativity that involves lots of risk taking), which makes sense cause who wants to spend millions and billions on a title without broad appeal 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DisturbedSwan Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 As I said in the previous page, the term 'Indie' has lost all meaning for me as so many big Publishers put out 'Indie' games now, so I just call them smaller games or sometimes AA titles. It's part of the reason why I eliminated the category from the GOTY 2021 and onwards voting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maf Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 @mfnick I was reacting to the question Quote A huge range of different games were mentioned but everyone agreed that indie titles are often much more imaginative and unique than their big budget rivals, as well as considerably less bloated. Yes, the 100's of Dark Souls, Zelda, Metroid and Rogue lites are very imaginative and new. Five Nights at Freddie's 19 is truly risk taking and not safe at all. I don't think what's being said is untrue, I also pointed out advantages I think indie games have over AAA, but I also think indie games get away with more than what they should a lot of the time because of the indie cred 29 minutes ago, shinymcshine said: Maybe the 'indie' term is more relevant to the size* of the developer rather than the publisher ? (* and ownership?) Sonic Mania best indie game 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinymcshine Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 I guess, as happened with music and cinema, the 'indie' label is pretty ambiguous nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DANGERMAN Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 where I think there's a grey area is indie publishers, which is an oxymoron to some extent, but happened in music and has happened in games. Th problem is where the line ends for that, Devolver have an indie feel but for how much longer? Microsoft and Ubisoft dont, not EA, all have put out good games that look like indie games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maf Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 Didn't Devolver recently get valued at a 1 billion dollars or something? I don't think it should be defined by the scale of the publisher. It's either strictly self publishing is indie. Or indie games picked up by publishers counts too. You could also get really detailed and be like well how much of the game was funded by the developer/publisher/ventures/deals. But I don't want to do that research Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DisturbedSwan Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 42 minutes ago, Maf said: Didn't Devolver recently get valued at a 1 billion dollars or something? I don't think it should be defined by the scale of the publisher. It's either strictly self publishing is indie. Or indie games picked up by publishers counts too. You could also get really detailed and be like well how much of the game was funded by the developer/publisher/ventures/deals. But I don't want to do that research Yeah, this exactly. They have an IPO on the London Stock Exchange. They like to look and sound Indie, but they're just another Publisher really, just a relatively small one compared to the likes of EA etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinymcshine Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 This is starting to remind me of those CAMRA meetings I use to go to where people debated endlessly as to whether xyz was an Independent, Craft, or Micro Brewery, and how to classify companies if they where bought by a major brewer but then continued to run like an Independent (with separate accounting etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimboxy Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 31 minutes ago, shinymcshine said: This is starting to remind me of those CAMRA meetings Off topic but CAMRA meetings are comfortably one of the worst things I've ever attended. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCH Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 I had to google what they even were🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HandsomeDead Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 Yeah, "indie" has got big enough it isn't indie anymore, and I guess often never was. Braid and Super Meat Boy got big injections from Microsoft I think, and were originally distributing them. Actual indie games are a pretty rare thing. Devolver Digital and Annapurna Interactive specialise in the idea of the indie game but are definitely publishers. Depending on the region things can differ too. In Japan and the US Guilty Gear Strive is independent by being self published and developed in-house (though I guess they don't have an arm in Europe since Bandai-Namco are involved there) but it's not what we'd think of as indie. And ArcSys have published other games so it gets weird there to consider them indie It's a murky thing that doesn't actually hold up so it is purely an aesthetic thing and doesn't refer to any real idea of independent development and publishing because the industry just requires so many entities to get something shipped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sly Reflex Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 But the thing is development for AAA games have also risen in price. This is just development inflation. I'd still consider them indie. Some games can be published by big companies and still be indie. Sure you could just say "This wasn't done by a bedroom coder so doesn't count" but that's stupid. I'd still consider something like It Takes Two alongside something like Deep Rock Galactic even though one was published by a big company because the people making them don't have studios of 100's of permanent workers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nag Posted February 27, 2022 Author Share Posted February 27, 2022 Quote Readers discuss their favourite FromSoftware and Dark Souls inspired games, as they eagerly await getting stuck into Elden Ring. The subject for this week’s Hot Topic was suggested by reader Cable, who was obviously inspired by the release of Elden Ring and the huge influence developer FromSofware has had on modern gaming. Everyone had a favourite, even Dark Souls 2, but it was fascinating to see how many people felt they’d never be able to beat the games at first and how pleased they were to prove themselves wrong in the end. Bloodborne wins by default... out of the three games I've tried that was the only one I saw an ending in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCH Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 Demon's Souls - By a mile. I've played a bit of Dark 3 and Bloodborne. But it didn't blow me away like the first few hours of DeS. That's not a nostalgia/rose tinted goggles thing either. I mean in terms of immersion. Each world of DeS set a unique tone which I was invested in. The misery of Valley of Defilement or oppression of Tower of Latria, for example. The Dark games made their own imitations of each of the concepts began with DeS. But they were derivative without the same feel. VoD has the layout and design of a genuinely lived in location. Blighttown doesn't. Also, for me, tonally Horror trumps High Fantasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfnick Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 Sekiro 1000%. It’s the pinnacle and all others are in its shadow. The other Souls games can do one. Talking of just FromSoft games, Ninja Blade is one I adored. It’s a God of War style rip off & its ridiculous. I loved it even though technically it’s not amazing. As for ones inspired by Souls games. I love Darksiders 3, Blasphemous and Jedi Fallen Order is great but quite different yet has enough of the Souls DNA to count IMO. Souls like games are usually better than actual Souls games for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCH Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 10 minutes ago, mfnick said: Jedi Fallen Order I keep forgetting I've got that on my shelf😄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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