The Hot Topic Returns

[Maryokutai]

On 23/07/2023 at 14:21, OCH said:

The Rogue-like approach is more actively encouraging from a player perspective.

 

I completely disagree. In fact the way roguelikes handle death is the main reason I strongly dislike that subgenre. For me there's nothing more frustrating than losing to a boss and having to redo massive chunks before getting to try it again, and in a roguelike's case, those "chunks" mean "the entire game up until that point".

 

People often bring up comparisons to classic videogames that will send you to the very beginning of you you lose all your lives, but it's really not the same scenario. In those games, the challenge is getting through while giving you all the necessary tools from the start. Roguelikes on the other hand aren't designed to be beaten from the get-go, so the constant trial & error repetition is part of their design, and I find it immensely unrewarding. 

 

As for the question, I can't really think of a specific example to add here. I do like the psychological effects some death penalties can have though, like permadeath in Fire Emblem, which forces you to play extremely carefully because you can't treat your units as cannon fodder. I also liked the trick Hellblade pulled, even though it ended up just being, well, a trick.

[HandsomeDead]

I want to mention DMC5 because I think I do like the way it handles death.  So in that you can just cash in some currency to revive yourself fully and carry on exactly where you left off.  It makes it very easy to simply progress through the game, see the story etc. but there's subsidiary rewards for doing it "properly" if you want to master the game.  It means you can be pretty punishing with the design but giving others less interested in that an out.  It's not even that nuanced or complicated but it affective.  It potentially encourages replayability too.

 

I saw a video on Halo once and they mentioned how making deaths funny is also a good way of easing frustration.  That might kinda tie to Super Meat Boy too.  I do think there is something to that.

[OCH]

2 hours ago, Maryokutai said:

Roguelikes on the other hand aren't designed to be beaten from the get-go, so the constant trial & error repetition is part of their design, and I find it immensely unrewarding. 

I get that. I've tried a couple of times over the years to recommend Roguelikes, Isaac in particular. It's hard for gamers new to the genre to parse that not every run can be won. For example, Isaac can give you a handful of absolutely terrible items. The seasoned Roguelike player just does what they can, acknowledging the futility, awaiting the next run. But to anyone else, that would be immensely frustrating.

 

It's the same way I look at the Contra games and to me, they are just unfair. But I doubt fans of the series see it in the same light.

[Nag]

 

Quote

Readers reveal the games they got the most hyped about before release, from Halo 2 to Resident Evil 4.

 

The subject for this week’s Hot Topic was suggested by reader Gannet, who asked what’s the most you’ve ever anticipated a new video game and how did the dream compare to the reality?

 

The video games industry isn’t short of heavily hyped games, both those that lived up to expectations and those that didn’t, but as is often the case the anticipation can be more enjoyable than the final product…

 

[one-armed dwarf]

DMC5 is the most hyped I've been for a game ever, I think (actually, I was similarly hyped for DMC2 as well lol)

 

As far as meeting those expectations, well the game clearly has flaws. But I also put 100s of hours into learning Nero and Dante's combat, so those flaws weren't really such a dealbreaker next to the things the game got right.

 

I was also pretty hyped for Cyberpunk and that game while not bad was quite a big bummer, unlike DMC. But I'm hoping that Phantom Liberty narrows the gap between what I imagined that game could be and what it will be now, even if only a little bit. Again, it's not bad, just that it doesn't feel like it progresses the genre beyond something like Fallout 4 which is far short of what they promised

[Nag]

I think mine is mentioned... Resident Evil 4 (original) it's the only game I've ever imported because I just couldn't wait for the UK release date... Good old Lik Sang.

[OCH]

I was hyped for The Last Guardian ..when it was first announced, shortly after Shadow of the Colossus' release.

I was hyped for MK vs. DC when it was first announced...

I was hyped for Eternal Darkness 2. When the crowd funding was announced...

I was hyped for The Evil Within. Then my PS3 died on the game arrived...

 

Discounting all the disappointments. I would say when Binding of Isaac: Afterbirth was the only game that delivered on that initial hype. The initial Flash game was addictive enough. The sequel/redux pushed it into the stratosphere.

 

Still, it's a relatively new concept for me. As a kid I didn't finish Tekken 2 or Ocarina of Time and think "I can't wait for the sequel!". When we saw said sequel on the shelf, which was inevitable back then. I thought "More. Cool."

[HandsomeDead]

I look forward to games I wanna play generally but it's mostly tempered and acknowledging a possibility that I may not love it, or even like it.  Being strongly let down by a game to the point leads to weird behaviour is very unrelatable.

 

So I can only remember being silly excited while being a teen.  Two that come to mind are Gran Turismo 2 and Final Fantasy VIII.  I was obsessed with GT at the time and having a more global variety of cars and more tracks was something I really wanted.  And I got into FFVII a little late and wrapped it up not long before VIII came out so I was looking forward to more and blown away by the graphical improvement.

[Maryokutai]

I remember particularly during the PS360 era that there were a lot of games I was hyped to come out. Mass Effect 2, because I loved the first one. Even borrowed my sister's iPod Touch to play the mobile spin-off with Miranda and Jacob. Lost Odyssey, which I imported because I couldn't wait. BioShock because the demo blew me away. 

 

But all that has kind of died down. I think Street Fighter V was likely the last game I was really hyped for. I bought my PS4 just to play the beta, which was available roughly half a year before launch. Haven't really felt that way for an upcoming release since then, which I suspect is also kind of an age-related thing. I do tend to look forward to certain games quite a bit – Metroid Dread was one of those I had to have on release – but it's no longer the "ticking days off the calendar" type of thing anymore.

[Nag]

I've definitely started to feel more and more let down with games nowadays... I do think a lot of games get hyped up to ridiculous levels that they can't possibly live up to, Starfield springs to mind there.

 

I'll forever be a day one buyer for games that I know I want to play but more and more those games fail to excite me like they used to do, unfortunately.

[DANGERMAN]

The earliest one I remember is Sonic 2, but personally I was more excited for Sonic 3 (neither disappointed). On the flip side, I remember Rise of the Robots getting hyped to fuck, same with Shaq Fu, both were varying degrees of shit (I'm not sure which is better/worse, but at least Shaq was colourful)

 

Streets of Rage 3 I wasn't hugely disappointed with, but it was a let down. The NiGHTS sequel was a bit of a let down, not that I was expecting that version of Sega to put out a great NiGHTS sequel, but it just wasn't what I wanted after all that time. 

 

Devil May Cry 4 was a let down, I didn't care about the series when 2 came out. I remember the Resident Evil 4 hype being high, but that lived up to it

[HandsomeDead]

I think Mass Effect 2 is one of mine too.  It was probably the first game I took a purposeful media blackout on because I didn't want to know a thing.  I saw an E3 trailer and turned a blind eye to everything else.  It meant I didn't have the best grasp of the game and I had a messy first playthrough but I wouldn't want it any other way.

[mfnick]

Can’t remember last time I was properly excited for a game. Would have been during PS360 days. Something like God of War 3 or Mass Effect 3. 
 

Obviously I still get hyped for certain releases but I no longer count the days down like I used to. Mostly an age thing I guess. Easy to get disheartened with modern releases too. 

[Metroid66]

I remember counting down the days until I could play Oblivion on the PS3. 

 

Then street fighter 5, like @Maryokutai. Except, unlike Oblivion which I have an ongoing build on even to this day (on XSX), that turned out to be a big pile of shite wrapped in a bag made of shite.

[shinymcshine]

Maybe GTA IV - the reason I bought a 360 as the DLC had MS Exclusivity (for timed period).

 

And then the game itself wasn't as fun as VC or SA were, and I didn't bother with the DLC anyway (until I got L&tD years later, and still haven't played TBoGT).

[radiofloyd]

Probably the most excited I’ve been was when I was a child - so FFIX for sure. VIII had been my introduction to FF. To say that I liked VIII would be an extreme understatement so I was in full hype mode for IX. I remember I had started to reading gaming magazines too and the Official Irish Playstation Magazine had an issue with Zidane on the cover. Needless to say, I loved the game.

 

San Andreas too. I feel like San Andreas was the ultimate example of a hyped game that lived up to and surpassed all expectations. At least to young 14 year old me at the time.

 

Skipping a bunch of generations and fast forwarding to now, I would say I am very excited to play Hollow Knight Silksong and FFVII Rebirth. 

[Jimboxy]

I genuinely can't think of the last time I was really hyped up to play something, maybe Mass Effect 2 as well, and that game delivered. I've certainly been excited to play things like Forza Horizon 4 and 5, but nothing on the same level as I was when Metal Gear Solid came out on the PlayStation, or Final Fantasy 8 or 10. I was obsessed with all of those in the run up to their release and I'd say all of the landed apart from 10 which I felt massively disappointed with at the time. I've meant to revisit it at some point to see if time has been kinder to it

[one-armed dwarf]

I remember being really bummed by FFX as well and then really turning around on it later on. The linearity was kinda a bummer, but then XII was so free so maybe that's why X seemed fine looking back

 

I think for as young adult-ey themed as that game is, it holds up reasonably well and doesn't shit the bed later on like lots of other games in the series. it's just really solid throughout

[Nag]

Yup, I'm another that enjoyed X at the time and still does now.👍

[OCH]

I recall a lot of my favourite games, I just picked up on a whim. So hype as such wasn't really a factor. Eternal Darkness? Sounds neat. Soul Reaver? Cover looks cool! Dragon Quest 8? "Never heard of one, let alone eight. But it's by Squeenix (back when that was an RPG gold standard) and has Toriyama art, so I'll give it a go."

Of course a lot of them were one-offs, such as Azura's Wrath or Madworld. So I also learned to temper expectations. I like outliers, for the most part. They don't typically get sequels.

 

A funny one to think about was Dark Souls 1. Absolutely adored Demon's Souls when it came out. Recommended through word of mouth. When Dark 1 came out I was excited to return to that world. Which wasn't meant to be. As previously stated, I didn't finish Dark 1 upon initial release (much like RE4). I didn't actually like the departure. It took a while before I returned to finish both games. Still don't list either of them as favourites.