Marvel Cinematic Universe

[HandsomeDead]

There is absolutely no polishing up on these shows as it's airing.  They're finished weeks before they air.  That may happen on smaller shows filmed as it's running in a studio like a quickly made sitcom, perhaps.  These are long form movies, basically.

 

They're only aired weekly to fill up a schedule.  Just putting something out when it's done is not artificial, what kind of argument is that?  It perfectly fits in the streaming format.  

 

You really can just say anything on the internet ?

[OCH]

Personally, I don't binge watch TV. I'll watch a film, no problem. But if someone says they watched all of Breaking Bad, for example, over a long weekend. That sounds like torture, regardless of the show's quality.

 

It is one of the reasons I am relatively late to the streaming service model. I've had a Netflix trial, twice. To watch a specific thing. Cancelling it within a week. Disney+ so far, I've watched Loki every Wednesday for the last 6 weeks. When it ends, I turn off Disney+ and go do something else.

[Maryokutai]

2 hours ago, DisturbedSwan said:

For me, its the opposite, all episodes dropping on Day 1 feels artificial because TV episodes have always typically been weekly, only since Netflix came along recently have some series tended to drop on day 1. 

 

Yeah, because they were distributed over cable which is an entirely different business model. TV makes money via ads primarily and if those channels want other companies to buy ad space they need to prove that people keep watching their network, which in turn means having a weekly schedule of different shows to reach as many people as possible, for as long as possible. Netflix doesn't care whether it takes me a day or a month to finish a show because I paid them the same amount of money either way.

 

12 minutes ago, OCH said:

Personally, I don't binge watch TV.

 

I don't binge watch either. But it's still nice to see a 10-episode show release so that you can watch, say, two episodes a night for a week and have a nice rhythm so that you don't forget important details etc.

[OCH]

12 minutes ago, Maryokutai said:

I don't binge watch either. But it's still nice to see a 10-episode show release so that you can watch, say, two episodes a night for a week and have a nice rhythm so that you don't forget important details etc.

In that respect, it works. For me, once a week is easier. As I watch TV so infrequently. Loki was the only thing I've watched for the last six weeks.

[DisturbedSwan]

2 hours ago, HandsomeDead said:

There is absolutely no polishing up on these shows as it's airing.  They're finished weeks before they air.  That may happen on smaller shows filmed as it's running in a studio like a quickly made sitcom, perhaps.  These are long form movies, basically.

 

They're only aired weekly to fill up a schedule.  Just putting something out when it's done is not artificial, what kind of argument is that?  It perfectly fits in the streaming format.  

 

You really can just say anything on the internet ?

I don’t really know one way or another to be honest, it just makes common sense to me that weekly releases may give folks behind the scenes a bit more breathing space as everything doesn’t have to be perfect on Day 1. 
 

The Netflix model is more artificial to me because it’s a new way of putting TV out there that wasn’t introduced before they came along. Traditionally TV episodes have been released weekly, Netflix has only been about for a few years.
 

That’s my take on it, I’m not saying I’m right or you’re wrong, that’s just my take on it. I like both models and it doesn’t really bother me either way how I watch TV, I’ll always be there day 1 for stuff I love (or think I will love) whether that be a weekly release or an entire series release. I prefer weekly releases if I had to choose as it gives me something to look forward to every week but we’re all different, enjoy your TV however you like. Just that in my view, if you wait until a weekly series finishes airing you’re more susceptible to spoilers which means it’s a no go for me most of the time.

People have different views on the Internet ??

[OCH]

I'll give an example of where this doesn't work. The new Netflix Transformers trilogy series, War For Cybertron. There were problems people had with the art direction, voice acting etc in the first part - Siege. The hope was that these issues would be addressed for part two. The problem is these shows were made in bulk. With post-production editing being the factor at play inbetween each series. Which means if you didn't like part one, you won't like the others. Because the release model made it too late to course correct potential criticism, as soon as the first part aired. 

[Nag]

Or that no-one on the production side gave a flying fuck about the whinging bastards that were sure to come bursting on to social media (like what happens with everything nowadays) and just stuck to their original vision... that's the way I'd prefer to look at it anyway.?

[OCH]

27 minutes ago, Nag said:

Or that no-one on the production side gave a flying fuck

It's like all media. You paid to see/play the thing. Whether you liked it or not. You still spent money on it, like everyone else. That's the important bit to a business. In spite of what some believe, the Social Media "feedback", less so. A lot less.

 

Mass Effect 3 will forever be the benchmark for what happens when you do back down.

[Maryokutai]

1 hour ago, Nag said:

Or that no-one on the production side gave a flying fuck about the whinging bastards that were sure to come bursting on to social media (like what happens with everything nowadays) and just stuck to their original vision... that's the way I'd prefer to look at it anyway.?

 

The Dragon Prince actually changed their animation style between S1 and S2 due to feedback (not whining, it was actually constructive). The producers agreed that it looked a bit too choppy and found a way to improve on it without the show losing its visual identity. That's a big exception of course but thankfully one that's also a positive example for discourse between company and fans.

 

But obviously that only works between seasons. The thing that Blakey suggests that somehow people are still working on the last episode of a season while the first one airs isn't really happening of course, that'd just be a nightmarish workflow from top to bottom. Get one group of people to do their job (editing, post production), then move onto the next phase (marketing, release). 

[HandsomeDead]

1 hour ago, DisturbedSwan said:

People have different views on the Internet ??

 

"This thing doesn't happen"

 

"Well maybe I think it does, it might not, but I'm gonna base my view on it anyway"

 

"?"

 

That's not how opinions work.

 

Uuurgh, okay I'm done, I was gonna go off but I'm having a shit week and I'm grumpy so I won't.

But overall you don't need to excuse every blatant corporate decision to enjoy the creative work they make.  Nothing about this benefits the viewer really as spending two minutes talking to a colleague about what happened in a show a week isn't worth it.  You find you get more invested in the happenings of a show when you're not spending all week speculating.  I know that's bad for the hype machine and the podcast industry but... good.

[one-armed dwarf]

I get the appeal of the communal aspect of watching TV, but at the same time it can kinda make some stuff feel a bit throwaway and transient if that's elevated as a significant point of the experience. This is entirely subjective of course, but thinking again about Breaking Bad I feel that series leaned far too heavily into the watercooler aspects later in its run and now it's a show that I rarely hear talk about. Even tho it initially started off extremely good I think. 

 

Also have never heard of people polishing the graphics on episode 4 or whatever when the pilot is out, I guess it's a thing that could happen but I bet it doesn't because that work is too complex to mess around with on a tight schedule. Unless these dudes work on crunch all the time. Anyway when you look at TV special effects it's usually pretty perfunctory I feel and you'd imagine they wouldn't be keeping visual effects people on payroll for unnecessary reasons like that, or at least move them onto other projects as swiftly as possible to keep that never ending content pipeline flowing

[Maf]

Finished Loki 4-6 tonight. Non-spoiler opinion is it’s another great step for Marvel on TV. Having enough MCU in it while telling stories differently and covering new ground they haven’t before. Not the best TV show ever or anything, I don’t think it’s all good, but I was saying I was getting bored of the MCU a bit before Endgame and I wanted something different. Loki and Wandavision deliver on that (FaWS, ehh, not so much). Also yes, very much on board for what it means going forward for the MCU. 

I don’t think this show is the best thing Marvel has ever done but it’s leaning in to some more interesting sci- fi then they’ve ever done and that I really liked and want more of. 

 

Spoiler though 

 

Spoiler

Actually liked all the multiverse talk. When they first introduce Kang I didn’t really like the take. But setting it up as this is the good version, the evil version is now on the way. Super smart and a chance for real Kang to not act like that. I loved where Kang was as well. Really good set and colour. 

Now the MCU is headed for multiverse war. That’s really cool. Since Celestials and things are going to be introduced I wondered how they would do that. Because the Marvel characters can’t fight them. But if Kang in one universe has taken control of Celestials and starts using them to invade other realities. Then that’s cool. You can have the big cosmic space gods fight each other and have the Marvel heroes fight Kang.

 

I really liked this show overall. I like the tone, the material the direction and a lot of the visuals. The thing that’s weird to me is why Loki. They tied it in smartly because everything in the show is about deception and control. Which is what Loki is about. But this type of adventure? Feels more like a Fantastic 4, Doctor Strange,  Ultimates (616 version) or even Booster Gold style thing. 
 

One thing, though. It feels a bit crazy that Kang is this powerful in the MCU. I mean he comes across as even more powerful than the cosmic entities are. Surely they must know about him, too. Maybe he has been keeping them prisoner somewhere and now he’s gone they can get out too. I dunno. Seems like Kang is too powerful. Be really interesting to see how they manage that going forward. 
 

The other thing that kept irking me is how Loki keeps getting tricked or beat up. In Avengers Cap was struggling to put a dent in Loki, but two TVA agents give him the business, on multiple occasions. Doesn’t seem right. Also, and I can’t believe I didn’t see it coming, but again the final fight in a MCU show was the hero vs a evil version of them self (Sylvie). They always manage to do it. This was one of the better ones, though.

 

Also please make Throg a thing in the MCU. Please

 

 

 

[OCH]

[Maf]

Captain America: The First Avenger passed 10 years old yesterday. Crazy. Crazy for so many reasons. The fact it’s 10 years old. What has changed for Marvel movies in 10 years. The popularity blow up of Cap. It’s still weird to me that people know who these characters are now. 
 

I remember watching the first Iron Man and 1) being surprised they made a good Iron Man movie but 2) at the end when they talk about Avengers I remember pacing up and down my living room after be like, a fucking Avengers movie? How would the Avengers even work? Does that mean there is going to be a Captain America movie? That will never work or break mainstream. It will just get laughed at. It seemed so impossible. 

 

I mean I liked Cap from the comics and such but he was never like an all time great superhero. When they were doing Spider-Man, X-Men even Daredevil movies I got excited because I was like yes these characters I like are in proper movies wow. 
 

But Avengers? Iron Man was a great movie but kind of felt like a fluke. 
 

Then when they were making Captain America I remember just thinking the idea was funny and it would never work. 
 

It also kind of didn’t. The First Avenger is not an all time great movie. It’s not even an all time great MCU movie. But I do think it goes under appreciated. Especially the first half. They managed to really nail Captain America but not make him corny, and created iconic Marvel moments in the process. I think the film doesn’t get enough credit for not only helping propel the MCU, but also recreating a honest to god, earnest super hero that really is good to a fault and believes whole heartedly in the best version of red, white and blue. For such a cynical time it’s such a monumental challenge. It was a really smart move setting the movie in WW2. Not only because that is the origins for the character but also because I think that is the only time a hero could be this genuinely, classically heroic and be believable.

 

The sequels are more popular than First Avenger. Yes, they are better movies. But also because they lean in to that cynicism more where it’s Cap vs the government. I think that speaks more to current audiences. But they still never made Cap himself cynical. He is still one of the only, truly, no jokes, classic superheroes on the big screen.
 

And it was never cemented more perfectly than with this scene. 

 

Also, just for a bonus. Man what a good time this movie was!

 

 

[HandsomeDead]

I watched The First Avenger again quite recently, it is a cool film and I do really like the MCU's version of Captain America and especially here, he's such a sweet himbo.  It's a disappointingly rare character trait for action movies.

 

I really like this storyboard art for The First Avenger, too: https://www.artstation.com/artwork/yRDzn

 

Spoiler

 

The star on the taxi door is such a nice touch.

 

[mmmark]

Scarlett Johansson sues Disney over streaming of Black Widow

 

Quote

Hollywood star Scarlett Johansson is suing Disney for breach of contract for streaming her film Black Widow at the same time as its cinema release.

 

The superhero film set a box office record for the Covid-19 pandemic when it came out this month, grossing $218m (£157m) on its first weekend. 

 

But box office receipts then fell sharply and Ms Johansson argues she was deprived of potential earnings.

Disney did not comment immediately on the lawsuit filed in Los Angeles.

 

Ms Johansson says she was promised by Marvel Studios, which is owned by Disney, that Black Widow would be a "theatrical release", and that she had understood this to mean a traditional "window" of time would pass before it would be streamed.

 

On its first weekend, Black Widow took some $80m in ticket sales in North America and $78m internationally, plus at least $60m in Disney+ Premier Access rentals.

 

Sources close to the actor project that she lost $50m, media reports say.

 

Before the pandemic Hollywood film fans would typically have to watch new releases at the cinema or wait three months to have them streamed to their devices. 
 

Major studios have recently been mixing cinema releases and streaming in different ways as cinemas battle to win back viewers wary of catching the virus in confined spaces. 

Warner Bros, for instance, will release The Suicide Squad both in cinemas and on HBO Max next month.

 

[Craymen Edge]

Hollywood studios routinely screw filmmakers out of box office profit share by creative accounting. Equally you'd expect a contract should specify something like theatrical release and not leave it up to interpretation.

[Maryokutai]

Well that's probably it for Scarlet appearing in the Disney-metaverse.

 

Also, as much as I dislike Disney, they're just doing what every other filmstudio is doing now due to Covid-related theater closures. Yeah, sure, it said something in the contrat, but the dude giving out tickets at the front desk who lost his job in April last year probably had a permanent contract too.

[Maf]

I'm with Scarlett on this. Even if Covid hits Disney hard, that's not her problem. She fulfilled her side of the contract. They have to fulfil theirs. I get Covid is a surprise and a big hit on finances. But it's still an existing contract. You have to honour it.

 

Almost the same exact thing happened to Gal Gadot for WW84. But I believe WB gave her extra money on top because WW84 wasn't going in the cinema. 

 

The only thing is I was watching a YT movie news thing about this and they applauded Scarlett for being professional with all this happening in the background. To an extent, sure. But I don't think it was professionalism, I think she was just lying in wait to see the box office result. Then after it fell off massively the second week she was like now I'll sue. 

 

She's still within her right to do that. But I wouldn't call that professional, call that just being smart. 

[mmmark]

I think Disney can afford to keep their end of the bargain covid or no covid.