Readers Feature

[Sly Reflex]

I think some of the fault lies at the consoles, but really a lot of this blame sits on the shoulders of the behemoth houses that make the games.

 

I was speaking about this on stream last night. The thing is with a lot of companies they look at something that is popular and try to replicate it, not realising that time to develop is no longer 6 months to a few years anymore. Like when Overwatch came out, it marched over everything, that made people take notice (but not notice of Battleborn which from the few people that I know that played it was just as good as Overwatch, it just lost out in a few ways that made it irrelevant). They've piled all that time and effort into something where market trends evolved to not be the same as they were. Like who seriously gives a fuck about Overwatch now? Same for something like Rainbow 6 Siege. Any hero based shooter. At one point they were the thing. Now, not so much.

 

And this is the point I would like to make. When you are making a game that will release in 3, 4 5, or even 6 years down the line, the landscape of what will be then is very different. Man, even back then we had games that were eclipsed by another game within weeks of release in regards of quality and gameplay. GoW3 to Bayonetta and CoD/BF to Titanfall 2 are the ones that come to mind.

 

It's not good enough to start making a game after the game that is big now with the hopes of overthrowing it or going for that market share. You have to do your own thing. That idiot Cliffy B did the thing when Battle Royale's were all the rage thinking he was going to take a slice of the pie. You just can't. Don't try and take a slice of the pie, make your own fucking pie. Yes, it's hard, but it's what has to be done. People are tired of climbing up a radio mast and lighting up 100000 collectable tick off checklists. It's old hat. It's time to move on and make things that people want even though they don't know they want them yet.

 

I think AAA games as they are are sort of fucked. I have said for a long time that Ubi's stuff uses the template for everything with a slight variation on a theme, and that seems to be the reason d'etra for a lot of big games made now. Just copy copy copy. No huge leaps, just these tiny steps where some of them are forwards and some of them are backwards. Big games are treading water and they have been doing for for maybe 5 or 10 years now, aside from a few exceptions. It's not just Ubi that are guilty of this, I think they all are to varying degrees. It's a stagnation that will only cure itself when games stop being designed by committee.

[HandsomeDead]

It's the sort of thing where iterative design can work okay if the stakes are lower and dev cycles are 2 years tops but when you have everything riding on this 5+ years game that is just like the ones made previously for the most part of course it all feels stagnant.  And the only time games do come out frequently is because you're swapping between 3 different studios it feels more like there is less coming out.  You can't help but wonder what else they could be doing.

[shinymcshine]

Wonder if more games might follow a spiral development model, of enduring support & updates, which something like "No Mans Sky" has done (and perhaps now being followed by Starfield?) rather the the traditional launch + 3 paid for DLCs.

 

I'm sure there's other games that had an underwhelming launch but stuck with it and improved, whilst others that didn't hit initial expectations whithered away.

[Sly Reflex]

Similarly how many never go anywhere or are dropped. Anthem? Skull and Bones? Or stuff like Star Wars 1313 that just get offed before they see the light of day because they can't be filled with MTX.

[Maryokutai]

19 hours ago, Sly Reflex said:

Like who seriously gives a fuck about Overwatch now?

 

Funnily enough after being away for years I recently reinstalled it to check out the new character and it's actually in a really decent spot now. About as good as OW1 ever was, which I realise is a rather back-handed compliment, but considering how bad the transition to '2' initially was, good on them. Also seems rather popular still.

 

There's absolutely no excuse for the monetisation though, it's disgusting and egregious. They just released four WoW-themed skins that cost almost 60 bucks as a bundle.

[Sly Reflex]

I know this is a bit of a pivot and anecdotal, but I really only know one person that's super into it and plays at least once a week now. She is pretty obsessed with it.

 

Everyone else seems to have just written it off. You of course get the "Let's play all OW2" crowd every so often that will fire up, but it burns out almost instantly. Everyone else I know is super done with it.

 

Considering everyone was on it when it came out it's a stark contrast. I guess you can say that for many flavour of the months though. More recently it being Helldivers 2.

[DANGERMAN]

This isn't a counter to you @Sly Reflexbecause I hate when people use a specific example to counter a valid general point, I'm only mentioning it because I was surprised when he told me. But, my boss was telling me his son and his mates were big in to R6 Siege. 

 

No idea how they got in to it, or if it's a trend and young people are coming to it, it just struck me because I assumed kids played Fortnite, and anyone still playing Siege, Overwatch or Apex etc would be the hardcore 

 

 

[Maryokutai]

You always had that dropoff with multiplayer games though. I'd imagine more people were playing Halo 2 in its first week than any other week after that, for example. I think the enormous numbers and successes of more current MP games like Fortnite, PUBG and Overwatch kind of skewed the perspective about that inevitable decline a bit.

[Maf]

I also think, for balance, 2023 was one of the best years ever for games. AAA, indie, sequels, remakes and new games kinda fucking killed it. You couldn’t move for critically acclaimed games last year from Cocoon to Armoured Core 6 to Hi-Fi Rush to Baldur’s Gate 3 to Jusant to Dead Space and back again 
 

I mean, if the attitude is “video games are over” after last year, at some point I don’t think the problem is the video games 

[one-armed dwarf]

That attitude has nothing to do with the quality of releases, it's because of all the studio shutdowns and layoffs. You can't have great games keep getting made if the environment for making them keeps being this hostile

[Maf]

This went from a letter about how this generation is rubbish to technology talk is the least of game’s problems to the whole AAA scene is fucked to people +1’ing only the posts that are negative. 
 

I hate to break it to you all but video games are better than they’ve ever been. 

[Sly Reflex]

5 hours ago, DANGERMAN said:

This isn't a counter to you @Sly Reflexbecause I hate when people use a specific example to counter a valid general point, I'm only mentioning it because I was surprised when he told me. But, my boss was telling me his son and his mates were big in to R6 Siege. 

 

No idea how they got in to it, or if it's a trend and young people are coming to it, it just struck me because I assumed kids played Fortnite, and anyone still playing Siege, Overwatch or Apex etc would be the hardcore 

 

 

 

Nah. When I was teaching the games they talked about most were GTA, FIFA, COD, Rocket League, Siege and CS. Maybe some APEX. None of them would talk about OW and there would be outright mockery if Fortnite was brought up.

 

Younger ones it tends to be Roblox/Minecraft and Fortnite.

 

Again, just anecdotal.

[DANGERMAN]

11 hours ago, Sly Reflex said:

 

Nah. When I was teaching the games they talked about most were GTA, FIFA, COD, Rocket League, Siege and CS. Maybe some APEX. None of them would talk about OW and there would be outright mockery if Fortnite was brought up.

 

Younger ones it tends to be Roblox/Minecraft and Fortnite.

 

Again, just anecdotal.

Him and his mates all play Fortnite from what I understand, although he might be reaching the age where they don't now, he's in secondary school. Must feel very old to them, it's been around their whole lives 

[Sly Reflex]

You have to look at it from your own perspective as well when you were their age. You maybe wanted to do the stuff aimed at older audiences because it meant you were more "mature". When I was a kid it was all Resi, Duke Nukem, FIFA, Gran Turismo and GTA. Happens with films and music as well, there's a point as a kid you watched your last Disney film and then likely didn't see another until you had your own kids.

 

The people that played stuff like Mario 64 were looked down on because why as a teen would you want to play kid games? There's just that shift there that you want to do the adult things even though a lot of adult things aren't really that good.

[shinymcshine]

The Minecraft / Roblox thing is pretty key, together with things like The Sims 4, and Animal Crossing - as I know a few people (adults and their kids) who play little else but one of these, and other people who just play those browser based building games - none who would necessarily call themselves 'gamers' or have any particular interest in wider games, but are routinely putting in hundreds of hours into those games.

[Nag]

 

Quote

A reader admits that he’s embarrassed to say he’s a gamer in public and argues it’s worse now than before nerd culture became as prevalent as it is today.

 

Back when I was young, the idea of a nerd just meant you were unpopular, uncool, and a bit of a swot. The idea of nerd culture didn’t really exist back then and while it was assumed you probably liked Star Trek and video games and comic books, that wasn’t really given much thought – you just weren’t one of the cool kids and that’s all that really mattered.

 

Nowadays though nerd culture is mainstream and while it’s still not exactly cool it’s obvious that it has a huge influence on general pop culture in a way it never did in the 80s and 90s. I think it was because once the internet became so important to society it was kind of accepted that the things nerds are into (because the internet existed for decades before that) did have value.

 

Of course, absolute power corrupts absolutely and so now that they do have influence they use it to hassle and harangue people online, treating things like whether a superheroes’ costume looks right, or a trivial point of Star Wars continuity, as if they were the most important issues in the world today. Petitions, death threats, endless online complaining… it almost seems like the less important an issue is the more people fight for it.

 

I haven’t mentioned video games yet but I’m sure you can already recognise a certain strain of gamer in what I’m talking about. I was inspired to write this feature because of the story during the week of people trying to rewrite the Wikipedia page for Silent Hill 2, because they were upset that it reviewed well.

 

They were calling it ‘woke’ and at first normal people couldn’t work out what they meant. I’m still not a 100% sure but I think it’s because minor character Angela is more attractive in the original than she is in the remake. And that’s it. That’s why people got so riled up they tried to deface a Wikipedia page and convince other people the game’s review scores were lower than they were.

 

We get these sorts of stories all the time though. Remember when people got upset because the main character in Stellar Blade was wearing very slightly more clothing than she was in the original trailers? 40,000 people signed the petition against that. You really couldn’t make it up.

 

Death threats are commonplace, as are stories of swatting, and petitions to change things or cancel things or otherwise try to tell a developer what to do. Here’s a life hack for you: if you don’t like something don’t buy it. That will send a very clear message to the developer and publisher.

 

The logical conclusion of this is if I don’t like that particular type of gamer then I should just ignore them. And I do. They only seem to exist online though, as I’ve never met anyone in real life who acts in anyway similar or talks about games, or anything else, with that level of hate and anger. But I do often wonder who they are. Is the seemingly normal person I’m talking to at the pub secretly a vitriol-spitting antisocial gamer?

 

For my part, I never tell strangers I’m a gamer. If someone asks me what I’m into I’ll never mention games, because I don’t want them to think I’m that sort of person and I don’t want to find out that they are. There’s far too many negative connotations attached to being a gamer nowadays and I think that’s sad.

 

Although it’s ironic really, that we’ve come full circle. When I was a boy I wouldn’t have said I was into games because I don’t want to seem nerdy and uncool. Now I wouldn’t say it because I don’t want to be mistaken for an online psycho with an enlarged sense of entitlement. I honestly think things might be worse now than they used to be.

 

By reader Rolo

[mfnick]

I still don’t tell people I’m a gamer but not for these reasons. As embarrassing & fucking pathetic that stuff is.

 

I’d argue most “normal” people who aren’t online like us and in the same algorithmic circles as “gamers” still don’t even know about that stuff.  I guarantee 90% of people in the street have no idea this kind of thing happens. No one I know IRL knows anything about this kind of thing happening. Maybe it’s more of a thing among younger people?

 

Personally I don’t admit to it as it’s very much still seen as a very childish and silly hobby by just about everyone I’ve ever met unless you just play COD, FIFA (whatever it’s called now) or GTA. 

[one-armed dwarf]

I don't think this is a younger person thing though it seems to be particularly bad with some younger people with how popular Andrew Tate is. But SH2 is 23 year old game so presumably the people getting mad that Angela looks different are a good bit older than that to have played the old game. 

 

What it reminds me of is when Donald Trump was giving out about Parasite winning the Oscar... cause it was a Korean film. There's this sort of incuriosity to it where at the center it's like an anxiety of being less important, so best thing is to demonise the things and people that aren't you in order to feel important that way again. It will never lead to better, more interesting stories like these people seem to think cause their version of a better story seems to be one which includes a far more limited selection of experiences and skin tones.

 

As bad as it is in video games, it doesn't compare imo to how weird Star Wars fans have gotten. There's always been a lot of controversy in Star Wars going back to like the prequels, maybe earlier. But it's sort of converged now with Gamergate stuff. I wanna give Andor a second try at some point, but I'm not going to click on a youtube clip abou the show cause then I'll get dragged into the weirdo vortex, I'm weird enough in my own way thanks very much

 

also, (Sh2 spoilers)

Spoiler

Angela is supposed to be 17, they made her look like that in the new one. In the old one, she looked aged beyond her years and like she has an eating disorder, implying that it's all triggered by abuse. But she's not supposed to be 'sexy', it's maybe the most illiterate reading you could make but it shouldn't surprise I suppose.

 

[mfnick]

9 minutes ago, one-armed dwarf said:

I don't think this is a younger person thing... 

Sorry I meant more the people being aware this stuff is happening. As in younger people are more aware this stuff goes on than say the 35+ year olds I know.

 

[one-armed dwarf]

Oh yeah, I mean I basically never talk about gaming in public with people anymore. It's not really a topic I can find as much connection with others

 

But I do think this stuff has blend into basically everything, gaming not even being the worst example of it