TV Shows

[one-armed dwarf]

Stranger Things dudes doing another go at live action Death Note for netflix

 

https://kotaku.com/death-note-netflix-stranger-things-duffer-brothers-1849148519?utm_campaign=Kotaku&utm_content=1657133522&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_source=twitter

 

Honestly, I'm down. ST1 had the right balance of sinister and goofy charm to entertain the possibility of this one maybe being decent. At least hopefully, Netflix's batting record for anime live action adaptation is a fat 0 still but anyways

[HandsomeDead]

2 hours ago, DANGERMAN said:

I don't know what you mean? 😅

I watched it a few months back and really enjoyed it, I was being genuine

 

Oh, I thought you were referencing that ONE time I spelt Mega Drive as one word by how you wrote Yellowjackets (even though I'm right this time, it's named after the kind of wasp and is one word).  It's just I must have been shook by my quoting style being called out by Dwarf.

 

It'd just been one of those days, alright, being overly aware of attacks 😅

[one-armed dwarf]

 

 

Think this looks really good, production wise, a lot better than I'd expected

 

I'm still not super sure about the story here. It seems like they're probably going to do a good job of it at first glance, but after Better Call Saul kinda just dragged on for ages I'm leaning towards wait and see on prequel stories with multiple seasons

 

But what they have here looks good enough to give it the ol 3 episode trial. Amazon weren't the ones to do that stinky Wheel of Time series, right?

[mfnick]

The Boys S3

 

Fucking amazing. Think this my be my favourite current TV series. Really didn’t want it to end. Bring on the next one! 

[HandsomeDead]

Yeah, S3 of The Boys is another banger.  Some people are a bit down on S2 but I think it's been good throughout.  It's one of the few things with that Verhoeven style of violent, preposterous satire that's made today.  I just wonder how far it can go next without a big mix up because Homelander is obviously a big draw in the show but his spiral has to end soon without feeling too drawn out.

[DisturbedSwan]

For some reason I just couldn’t get into The Boys S3 for awhile. Then about Ep 4 everything turned around and I ended up absolutely lapping it up.

[one-armed dwarf]

I'm watching The Boys now because people talk about it a lot. I think it's good, but I can't tell sometimes if it's as clever as it thinks it is or not but I keep watching it so something's working. I guess I don't need to say the premise but I will anyway, it's what if the Avengers Initiative was a bunch of dicks. I knew that going in, but what I didn't know that it was about what if Disney were in charge of a real Avenger's Initiative and had their fingers in a bunch of pies not just limited to non-stop franchise films where they want everyone thinking about their IP every 15 minutes, but also the military industrial complex and what happens when that reaches its ugly logical conclusion.

 

I think it gets too dark and edgy sometimes tho. Like some of it is super gross and hard to watch in a 'lets see how far we can push this' kinda way. I think when you introduce nearly each character by having them do something awful it's hard to get invested in what they themselves might be going through cause they really deserve way worse anyway

[OCH]

The Boys comes from Garth Ennis. Also noted writer of Preacher (similarly adapted into a show a couple years ago). He has a known distaste for Superheroes. You might pick up on the subtle hints to that in The Boys.

[Maf]

I watched the first 2 seasons of The Boys and think it’s super boring. It’s just like this ultra cynical parody and no fun at all. I don’t know why people think bad Superman is a clever or edgy concept when it’s such a immature and basic idea

 

Anyway, not for me

[one-armed dwarf]

I've no idea about the source material and don't care that much really but as for the TV show, not going to go defense squad on it but I think it really isn't much about bad superman as it is about bad disney

 

Based on the recency of MCU stuff tho I've no idea if that's a creative liberty taken by amazon or if it's in the original material

[HandsomeDead]

It is a pretty misanthropic and at times plainly nihilistic show but I find these kinds of things cathartic in a weird way.  It's like Black Mirror in a way because that did start getting push back for how misanthropic it is but like... I dunno, maybe it's like you might listen to a sad song when you're sad there's a similar catharsis to something like The Boys when you're angry.  I think it's really good at it overall, anyway.  Just don't overindulge I suppose.

 

I've not read the comics, I've heard people talk about the comparisons and the general consensus seems to be the show is better with its critiques of super heroes.  In fact I'd even it isn't even really about that, just how power corrupts and a person having that much is probably not good.  Maybe that's a little undermined by being an Amazon show but they do love to commodify this stuff.

 

Like, I think describing it as a show about "what if Superman bad" is really reductive and does explore much more beyond that.

[Maf]

You’re right, it’s more than bad Superman. I forgot they do all the corporate stuff as well, it’s been a few years since I’ve seen it. But it all comes from that same played out well, except ratcheting up the filth. I thought it was very boring and easy 

[OCH]

31 minutes ago, Maf said:

I don’t know why people think bad Superman is a clever or edgy concept when it’s such a immature and basic idea

Spoiler

The original Superman pitch was as a villain, Maf.

I haven't read the source material. But I do know The Boys is Ennis' reactionary rebuke to the idea of superhero worship presented by major western comics.

[one-armed dwarf]

Well look, not to spawn another comic discussion on another thread, like I said I don't even really think it's that much about 'bad superman'. It's about different kinds of power, not just 'super' physical power but also cultural and political and the kinda dystopian way things could go with a conglomerate which has all three. It's very heavy handed and saying it's on the nose would be putting things lightly but the comic shit is just window dressing for its themes as far as I'm concerned, even taking into account it literally is based off a comic.

 

Like it's probably got more in common with Robocop than superman, really.

[HandsomeDead]

Okay, thinking about it more I don't even think Homelander is even much of a critique of Superman.  He has a similar look and power set but the thing with Homelander is he's a fragile, narcissistic time-bomb who everyone walks on egg shells around.  This isn't a critique of Superman because it's just not who he is.  A critique of him would show how his actual traits could have a negative affect.

I'd say he's a critique of something much broader with a Superman-esque costume.

 

I also just don't like the "edgy" criticism because it implies a thoughtless shallowness which I don't think The Boys is guilty of.  I'm probably sounding like I think it's a perfect show; I don't, I've got my gripes but I just hate to see this kind of uncompromising boldness shot down as just being "edgy".  It's really hard doing satire in today's climate because IRL is so ridiculous so going hard is the only way.

 

And yes, Robocop is also a perfect example.  It would be so easy to just dismiss it as edgy but, come on, that sounds so silly.

[OCH]

12 minutes ago, HandsomeDead said:

And yes, Robocop is also a perfect example.  It would be so easy to just dismiss it as edgy but, come on, that sounds so silly.

You've just reminded me Robocop had two TV shows...

[Maf]

Well, the comic shit is literally i]what it’s trading in. It’s fucked up Justice League (Superman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Flash). Then launches in to the corporate America stuff. It’s not dressing up to look like it say the Joker movie. It is what if Superman was evil. What if Wonder Woman gave up on her mission. What if the Flash was a drug addict. It is that, then other stuff on top.
 

I thought the Boys was super shallow and didn’t say anything interesting. I can’t think of another example off the top but I feel like it’s ideas I’ve seen over and over. Or they were so obvious I wasn’t struck by them. 
 

I also don’t think being in your face is the same as being bold. Like what does it do that’s so boundary pushing or new? Other than blaaaash look how much we don’t give a fuck. Like even the “good guys” are so aggressively boring
 

If it’s not a critique of Superman exactly it’s just another crack at bad Superman. If someone had these powers how would it actually go.  I think the story of how do you handle this power instead of abuse it and get corrupted is so much more interesting. 
 

But I’m also turned off by cynical comic book shit, it’s just not for me. 

[one-armed dwarf]

I think the comic shit is really just the surface level to communicate what the meat of the show is, which is when power gets too concentrated in one entity that gets to not only be in charge of culture but things beyond that as well.

 

Like yes there is a satire of some comic shit going on, but it's like a surface level 5-10 percent of the show, and that surface level is mostly the character's appearance and some of their abilities. If anything the comic angle is more strongly focused on how culturally dominant comics are in our current culture rather than the content of the comics themselves, which frankly you could remove entirely from this story and change very little of I feel like (replace Homelander with 'Bad jason bourne').

 

I'm not really trying to make a big argument in defense of this because I'm sort of on the lukewarm side of 'positive' on what I think of it. It's one of the better things I've seen recently but nothing on barry or saul or anything like that. But I think hyperfixating on the comic book layer of the TV show and dismissing the entirety based on this particular aspect is a little like 

 

 

and I'm not disputing that comics themselves can't be rich in themes like this either, but yeah I just agree that 'superman bad' or 'justice league but evil' is surface level stuff here.

 

I think you could probably compare it to Joker actually, tho it's better than Joker at least which I didn't think was good at all

[Maf]

Despite forgetting about how it talks about corporate America and the politics that come with that, and how they effect government and the military and such, I did get it I just forgot until you said it. That was not the part that stayed with me. Even if calling it bad Superman is ultimately reductive, it did so nothing for me that’s all I had filed it as. I understood the show, i just didn’t think it was that good

[HandsomeDead]

This might all be worth splitting into its own thread because I'm willing to roll my sleeves up and go into this.

 

Now @Maf I'm not forcing you to like it but addressing the stuff you're saying, at least my perspective on it.

 

I don't think it's shallow.  It may take a scenario which could be a sarcastic tweet but I think the show explores the consequences around it pretty well with great performances.  And maybe I am an idiot who is moved by preposterous visuals, but I just appreciate the craft and do get wonderous vibes from the really gruesome stuff.  There's some good, slimy practical effects along with the CGI.

 

What would you consider a boundary pushing show? I don't think The Boys is either because they are very rare things and I'm wondering why that's such a notable criticism for this.  I just think it's working within a tradition of exploitative genre fiction (as I said way up the thread, it's Verhoeven-esque, which is rare in that specific kind of delivery, not nonexistent).

 

Now, I think The Boys themselves are good.  Not Butcher, he is the anti-hero of the group but everyone else is navigating this messed up situation and being pretty admirable (though Huey, he's one of my gripes (nothing massive, they do too much with him and I don't think it always works)) but MM and Frenchie are great.  Total Kings.

 

And your final point, well it is in the show.  I'd say that's Starlight's arch.  She wants to be an actual hero despite the current, established path being so full of corruption so she has to look outside of it.