Microsoft Consoles and Updates

[mfnick]

Yea, problem is I wanted that shit because “their games will be on Game Pass yay”. Instead they’re just turning into another EA,

gobling up and shutting down studios and hoarding IPs. 

 

I’m a dick.  

[Maf]

I honestly think 3-5 years ago there was vision how to put Xbox on top. Apart of that being this Netflix-esq service backed by great talent making great games. 

 

The moves they made in the past had me really believing in this idea and their reach for a new quality level for Xbox centred around games/games service instead of TV. They delayed Halo by a year, they gave the Forza teams years off to find a refresh, they commissioned smaller games like Hi-Fi Rush and Pentiment, they've even given Sea of Thieves nearly a decade to find it's feet and turn in to a hit. 

 

Whatever Gamepass has done/is doing financially. I think it must work on some level otherwise they would have stopped/modified it. It's a long term, new idea and from my perspective it's really great and not only gives them something unique in comparison to Sony/Nintendo but both of those companies now have their own version of it 

 

I really think they had something and tried to make it work. Even acquiring companies and investing in new talent to try make Gamepass a kind of relay. Having multiple studios at various stages of development so as one game comes out more are in development. It was always going to be a huge production/management challenge but if anyone could do it, it's one of the biggest, richest companies in the world. 

 

But the plan has clearly not materialised. Not only do so many of their games feel like they're in development hell but when they come out they flop or at least have no staying power. Halo, Starfield, Redfall, etc. 

 

But failures, missing the targets and putting billions in to 2 consoles they keep telling people they don't need to buy aside.

 

The big thing is the same thing that's causing all these lay-off's and it's this reactionary panic manoeuvre to the "shrinking market". And all the studios that did exactly what they needed to do, and were bought for, have paid the price for this panic over the bottom line and exec bonuses. 

 

The idea for what it seems like they were trying for were both sound and exciting imo. But they've fucked it up so badly. I don't know how they come back from it. 

 

I didn't get excited about Xbox because it was going to be a CoD/Elder Scrolls machine. I got excited because they had so many chances to do exciting stuff. But between going multi-platform, games never coming out, big games being underwhelming and now shutting studios. The winds have fucking changed and it's hard to feel any positivity around Xbox now.

 

It feels like totally different direction. It went from invest, invest, invest to sell, sell, sell 

[Nag]

You just watch how excited we all are in a months time...🤣🤣

[Maryokutai]

It's not a shrinking market, it's a stagnating market (according to them, but the numbers seem to agree). Just for clarification, not that it makes a difference for the argument.

 

I'm mostly in the same boat, it's hard to look at the black box now and feel any kind of positivity about it. And as much as I 'invested' (ugh) in that ecosystem I kind of don't care anymore what they do next. I just hope they stop ruining studios in the process and start looking for opportunities to let them detach in a healthy manner, like Toys for Bob did.

 

I disagree with one thing though and that's the whole Gamepass thing. Always felt it was a dangerous avenue and I wouldn't be surprised if it's partially to blame for low attachment rates. On the other end of the spectrum Nintendo just confirmed MK8D sold over 60 million copies on Switch. Probably made more money out of that game than Microsoft made with all their current-gen exclusives combined. And that can't not have an effect on how things are handled.

[mfnick]

I really hope they still get shit for this next month and don’t just have every site hyping them up after all this. Doubt it as people are quick to forget (including myself) but they deserve a lot of pushback for this. 

[Maf]

I'm not trying to say I'm done with Xbox or whatever. Just can't think of anything going for them that's positive right now. 

 

I remember the last showcase and being underwhelmed by that. Hopefully Gears 6 turns up at the new one and is cool, but you can't even rely on that at this point. Their games have such a bad track record. 

 

All I want from Xbox is for them to make great games. And today the chances of that just got slimmer still 

[DANGERMAN]

1 hour ago, mfnick said:

I really hope they still get shit for this next month and don’t just have every site hyping them up after all this. Doubt it as people are quick to forget (including myself) but they deserve a lot of pushback for this. 

Phil will say he's sorry while wearing a Banjo t-shirt and the press will forget all about it 

[HandsomeDead]

I can only echo whats already been said.  But I do also think why this one stings a little more than usual is it goes against what the promise of Gamepass is.  It was supposed to be a space for games like Hi-fi Rush and it makes sense that having many studios being exclusive or prioritising Xbox to fill out the portfolio, so why wouldn't anyone believe them when they say they're going to do that.

But it turns out it is just the same as everyone else.  Just acquiring companies for a few IPs and waiting for an excuse to toss the rest.

 

This has been happening far too often for over a year.  I keep thinking it must stop, this will be the last time but it's never ending.

[Snaggletooth]

Having been predominantly a PlayStation user over the years, I have had little care on interest in gamepass until this last month when picked up my PC.

 

Phil unfortunately Bears the brunt on this as the face piece but how much of this was actually his decision?

Do Xbox division have full autonomy and control over finances? How much of gets dictated by Higher ups outside the division as a whole, ultimately a decision of MS not Xbox?

 

He may have had to make the choices on who / how to save money?

Just a thought I'm probably way off.

 

[Maf]

I think you’re on the right track @Snaggletooth but like you say Phil has to take responsibility for it. I think execs and shareholders have put pressure on Phil, and Phil is looked at the fastest way to make profit and that’s sell on PlayStation and cut jobs/shut studios. 

 

I think another larger idea these sudden, dumb decisions they’re making point too is them cashing out for whatever they can on the current Xbox. It looks like they’ve lost faith they can turn it around, and want to start preparing for the next thing. 
 

I mean they’re already openly talking about the next box. It feels like they want people to stop thinking about the current situation and look at the future of Xbox, but the decision to go 3rd party and shut developers is like what future? 

[HandsomeDead]

You know the one thing had me eye rolling with Hi-fi Rush is the ending as much as I love everything else and it's so ironic now

Spoiler

Throughout the game it has a very anti-corporate sentiment but by the end it just lands on "oh, the wrong person was just in charge but we've saved the nice boss and now everything will be good".  It does make me think of Phil a bit now and how it's pure cope.

 

It ties to the film industry too.  There was a time when studio heads at some level liked being apart of showbiz, hanging out with movie stars and being part of the process but that dwindled away and started being run by people who'd be just as happy at Pepsi or Raytheon.

They weren't charity cases or anything but there was something there and that exists even less now.  Games are the same, probably worse.  I don't care that Phil is gonna get shit for this because even if he is sincere about his passion for making games the result is still the same as if he was replaced with the most soulless ghoul you know.  It doesn't mean shit due to the way the whole industry operates.

 

It's really good something like Hades 2 was sort of released this week too because a reminder that great things can come outside of all this is useful.

[HandsomeDead]

Now they're just getting silly with it:

 

https://www.theverge.com/2024/5/8/24152137/xbox-hi-fi-rush-tango-gameworks-matt-booty

 

Quote

Today, one day after Microsoft announced that it would shut down four of its games studios, Matt Booty, head of Xbox Game Studios, held a town hall to discuss the division’s future goals. “We need smaller games that give us prestige and awards,” Booty told employees, according to internal remarks shared with The Verge.

 

For some listeners on the call, it was a surprising goal: Microsoft had just shut down the Japanese developer Tango Gameworks, which was coming off the small, prestigious hit title Hi-Fi Rush.

 

🤡

[mfnick]

Fucking laughable if it wasn’t so tragic.

 

Debating CoD coming to Game Pass now too when that’s been a given basically up until now. Surely they should know all this before spending $69billion? 
 

The negativity around Xbox genuinely feels even worse than it was back in the Xbox One reveal days now. 

[Maf]

There were some new articles about the situation that came out over the past 24 hrs with extra information 

 

Apparently a key issue involves middle management. Where they feel they are stretched too thin over too many projects which is why quality is down. 
 

They do have a lot of games on the go so this makes sense to me, but again it’s poor leadership and management that has lead to creatives paying the price. 
 

Apparently Xbox were ready to keep investing in the Redfall developer until this management issue was raised 

[mfnick]

If you’ve got too many games on the go surely continuing to buy companies is a bad idea no? How about not buying a $69bill company if you can’t manage them all? 

I thought the whole strategy was to have a steady stream of games releasing constantly too especially for Game Pass so surely you need lots in development? 

[Maf]

Yeah, but the issue seems to be with planning and management. They started all these projects and then some layer of management has turned around and said it’s too much 

 

Quote

Speaking about the closures more broadly, Booty said that the company’s studios had been spread too thin — like “peanut butter on bread” — and that leaders across the division had felt understaffed. They decided to close these studios to free up resources elsewhere, he said.

 

Booty added that the shutdown of subsidiary Arkane Austin, the longtime developer of games such as Prey, was not connected to the performance of its new multiplayer game, Redfall, a critical and commercial flop.

Before its closure, Arkane had been looking to return to its roots by pitching a new single-player “immersive sim” game, such as a new entry in the Dishonored series, according to the people familiar.

 

Jill Braff, head of ZeniMax studios, said in the town hall that she hoped the reorganization would allow the division, which also develops Fallout  and Doom, to put more focus on fewer projects. “It’s hard to support nine studios all across the world with a lean central team with an ever-growing plate of things to do,” she said, according to audio of the meeting reviewed by Bloomberg.

 

“I think we were about to topple over,” she added.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-05-08/xbox-studio-closures-microsoft-plans-more-cost-cutting-measures-after-layoffs?leadSource=uverify wall&embedded-checkout=true

 

EDIT: This part of the article appears to be reference to Zenimax only, not the entire Xbox division 

 

EDIT2: Somewhere else I read they’re not even done cutting down. Next it’s core Xbox studios

 

I don’t mean to sound mean, but 343 must be on the chopping block. Halo is probably my favourite FPS series ever, but it’s time to let it go, I think 

[one-armed dwarf]

Repeating myself from just a page ago but if that's true then what a fucking disaster all those acquisitions were. Stop buying companies just to fucking ruin them

 

The other thing I remember hearing with their internal studios was an overreliance on contractors, typically hired for like an 18 month term or something. Which could cause an inertia in getting comfortable with their development tools, and domain knowledge would keep leaving with them

[Maf]

It depends. It seems to be a new development and only raised by management recently. Which is why they were taking pitches in a Hi-Fi Rush sequel and new immersive sim from Arkane before shutting them down

 

Absolutely you know management and production schedules were worked out when buying companies and a bunch of people sat there and went “uh-huh, yeah I can do that”

 

Top leadership would have expertise and experience to know if this was not realistic or not. So either they’ve put to much pressure on management teams to see the business deals through, or it was possible and the management teams have fucked up

 

Then recent financial results are also obviously involved too

[HandsomeDead]

However they came to this decision it has plummeted their reputation and if it wasn't such an urgent matter then surely negotiating an exit strategy would have been much better.  Like what was the difference here than Toys for Bob?

[Maf]

I dunno. I’d love to know how deals like that happen, because it makes no sense to me. 
 

I would assume Toys 4 Bob had some investors/capital from somewhere and bought their independence with a project partially funded from Xbox in the negotiations. Maybe revenue from the project goes to Xbox to finish paying off their independence? I dunno

 

that’s based on 0 just wild guessing. But stuff like that is interesting to me. 
 

Apparently Gamepass grew by 1% last year. Not sure if gamers really don’t like subscription models, it relates to poor Xbox sales, or Xbox don’t make good enough games to sell the service. No wonder they’re limiting the spending budget on the service and debating if CoD should be on it or not.

 

I actually think in terms of CoD don’t put it in Gamepass. Even though that goes against what’s good about the service, if it keeps studios open for fucks sake don’t put it on Gamepass