Elden Ring

[DisturbedSwan]

Started this on Saturday night, think I'm about 4 hours in so far.

 

Initial impressions are positive overall but I do have more issues with it than I thought I would. It's far from the perfect masterpiece that Sekiro is so far in my view. 

 

I liked the change of pace that playing a mage type provided on DeS Remake and the super-nimble ninja of Sekiro so I chose the Astrologer class as this seems like a good mage build which could potentially be a high dex nimble knight type build (which magic elements) if I wanted it to. I really didn't fancy going back to my Strength Tank type build in this and hiding behind a shield again. 

 

I've just kind of been stumbling about so far trying to get my bearings. I've fought some weird huge flower thing, found some plinth with a blue seal that asks me if I want to go somewhere else (no?), found lots of bonfires (sites of grace, sorry Miyazaki-san). Ran into two bosses that were both on horses and beat me to smithereens before I had the chance to even know what's going on. 

 

Probably for the first two hours of my session I didn't have a horse as I was just completely ignoring what I thought was the main story path, then I must've accidentally stumbled into the main story path and met Melana(?) who then gave me the horse to mess about with. The horse is actually alright but what I dislike with a passion is horse combat, it is just terrible, flailing about trying to hit someone with my sword or spell, it just feels awful and imprecise, completely counter to what Souls games should be about. So, I don't really use it for combat, just for travelling about, as the regular combat has been as good as ever. 
 

Something else I don’t like is that there’s seemingly bonfires every 5 feet apart, it’s just ridiculous. There doesn’t seem to be any shortcuts or semblance of that fantastic overlapping interweaving Souls level design, it’s all relatively surface level and feels a bit shallow. I’ve not even found any dungeons yet either. 
 

Aside from two ‘bosses’ that were riding about the world I’ve not encountered any of them yet either, which feels very odd for a From game. Something about it just feels a bit off. 
 

I will say though that the world is interesting to explore and I have enjoyed wandering off and almost completely avoiding any semblance of the main path (or what I assume it to be). It’s fun to indulge my curiosity and the way the world is designed is very clever in that I’ll naturally have my eye drawn to something and immediately want to go over and explore it. 
 

So a mixed bag so far, overall positive but with some niggling issues I can’t quite get my head around yet. Early days though so hopefully things will get better as the game goes on.

 

P.S. I thread through this thread earlier and had to Google what the magic summons were as I didn’t have a clue, I’ve not unlocked any yet and also not touched the ashes of war.
 

Spoiler

 

 

 

[OCH]

RE: Horse combat.

It is very clunky. But you do get used to it. I initially overthought it and kept dying to the various aggressive enemies on horseback. I had the idea that sword strikes would be like jousting. You get one good hit, then turn and repeat. No... Eventually I cottoned on that you ride up to the enemy, lock on,  keep moving around them and spam X until dead.

 

I'm struggling to see where George RR Martin fits into this game? I've found so far there are less flavour text item descriptions and next to no environmental story telling. In a game that touted a collaboration with a famous author? 🤔

[shinymcshine]

George RR Martin perhaps hasn't finished writing his bits yet.....

[one-armed dwarf]

I imagine FROM gave him a foundation for the kind of story they were planning and GRRM wrote all the history for it, then FROM went back and wrote the 'main' story and decided on tone and certain plot beats. There is some stuff in here that's unmistakably Miyazaki, in terms of factions and plot progression if you have been paying attention to the kinds of things these guys do with their games. 

 

But on the story stuff I've mostly found it really good, it's got the most rewarding plot 'archeology' of any of these games IMO, it calls to mind Dark Souls II a lot and the reasons why I liked that game so much. Unfortunately tho I don't like Elden Ring as much as Dark Souls II. But it's fun to hear about what is supposed to have happened long ago and seeing the outcome of all that in the present

 

In particular enjoy reading all the stuff on the faith incantations

 

Also, there are people in this with names like Godrick, and Godwyn. And, uh, Neil. Praetor Rykard, could not find a more GRRM-esque name

 

As far as the gameplay goes tho, I'm something like 80 hours into this and I'm at the giving up stage. I'm summoning for most boss fights, I can't believe how long this game keeps going on for. This is a Red Dead II type of game for me I think

[mfnick]

Unlocked all the left hand side of the map now. Starting to get a bit tired of the gameplay loop truth be told and even a couple of bosses are starting to repeat. I just felt my stomach sink when more of the mapped unlocked too, it’s just so big. But I’ve had 20 hours out of it so that’s something. Saying that out of those 20 hours I feel like I’ve done nothing really.
 

I’m still using my starting armour and weapon sets because nothing else I’ve found or earned has been better while staying mid weight. I’ve only done 2 “story” progressing bosses, it just feels all a bit pointless. Sure fun is mean to be in the exploration and combat rather than in rewards but that’ll only carry for so long when everything I’ve done so far is for nothing basically. Maybe it’s time I should just consult a guide for a bit to just feel like I’m making some progress and I might get back into it. 
 

The menu stuff is still needlessly obtuse at times too. I had to look up how to change arrow types at one point. Same with equipping spells. Why can’t I just do it at the inventory screen. What is that adding? Nothing apart from frustration. 
 

Im still enjoying my time with it for the most part though. Combat is satisfying even though it’s not even in same league as Sekiro. The environment does a good job of making you wonder “what’s that over there?” Even if for me it’s 99% nothing that’s of any use to my character. & that intrigue can still be found in linear games. 
 

[one-armed dwarf]

In general the bit you're on now is the 'BOTW' bit, you're supposed to wander until you bump into things or people that point you to something. But you shouldn't imo try to rush the mainline, cause you'll be grossly underlevelled at just 20 hours. 

 

Now is that a good way to build an open world game or not, I dunno. But it feels like 'getting lost' is a deliberate feature here

[DisturbedSwan]

Whilst I was playing it last night (missus fell asleep!) I remembered something else I don't like. 

 

I absolutely hate that you can now travel to any bonfires willy nilly at anytime you want pretty much, it's fucking shit and shouldn't happen in a Souls game in my view. Takes away all the tension and drama in potentially losing your Souls when traversing the world, I just walk about with my guard down for the most part as I know I can just run away and warp to a bonfire if I get attacked and low on health. 

 

I found my first two dungeons last night and defeated my first boss. I'm very pleased that you can't fast travel when in a dungeon, it brings back all that lovely tension I love about these games and had to keep my guard up and not nonchalantly wander about like I usually do. The boss was massively disappointing though, just looked like a regular enemy and I took him down in about 6 hits.

 

I did accidentally stumble into another dungeon too that had a gigantic bear as a boss at the end, gave it a go but my attacks were hardly making a dent so I gave up and left it for another attempt in the future.

[one-armed dwarf]

I just don't think the world is dangerous enough for that kind of 'tension' you're talking about though. It's largely a BOTW open world in that sense, and it is incredibly huge with traversal bottlenecks everywhere. If you did limit it in that manner it would become incredibly annoying to get from Liurna to Atlus plateau (for example), due to the length of time certain routes will take you. Which doesn't fit well in a game this long which so much hidden stuff in it. I do prefer manual exploration as well but the open world in this is not really about generating that kind of feeling of danger. It's a gear shift away from that, the oppression you are looking for exists in the more high level 'chalice dungeons' (BB terminology) and legacy dungeons.

 

The open world in this is like the bits in SOTC where you're hunting the next colossus, but with 100 times as much side content material and optional storylines

[mfnick]

Yea that’s one area I think they have got spot on. Imagine a world this big bit you were scared to actually explore any of it. It’d actively discourage you from looking around if the grace points weren’t so plentiful. And it can take a long time to get around so again, having them be easy to fast travel between helps encourage exploration. 
 

I’ve definitely still had times where I’ve felt very tense progressing as I may have been travelling for ages since my last grace - whether it’s because I missed one or just because the route I took was difficult. 
 

But that’s one area I hated about previous Souls games anyway. Repeating long stretches just isn’t enjoyable at all and personally added nothing to the experience and actively tuned me off. Didn’t hurt Sekiro at all having more checkpoints. 

[one-armed dwarf]

Also what I mean by a 'gear shift' is the exploring is supposed to be a break for the players from the dangerous exploring in more confined environs. Because the game is so long (I saw a post somewhere that suggested I'm just past halfway, I dont know that I believe that but holy fuck if it is the case) it's impossible imo to sustain that feeling for very long without it becoming exhausting.

 

The thing with Elden they tried to do is make a really hard game more approachable for lots of people, which imo they largely pull off in spite of the issues I have with it. The open world being the way it is is part of that, and necessary to broaden the series appeal (and like I said it's still stupidly fucking hard if you want it to be, more than I can take at time)

[DisturbedSwan]

I get what you're saying @one-armed dwarf and I don't have a solution to the traversal bottlenecks you mention.

 

I don't have an issue with fast travel in general, I just wish it remained similar to past titles where you can only fast travel from bonfires to other bonfires. But I get due to how large the game is and the bottlenecks that's probably not possible, but it would've immediately added some tension into the game.

 

I don't want the game to be so scary that you are afraid to explore but it should be foreboding and make you have your guard up at all times and it massively fails to do that, and even if you do get caught off guard you've got two get out of jail free cards in Torrent and fast travel. 

 

It just feels dumbed down to me, I hate to say that as it'll sound like I'm some gatekeeping arse but it just feels too easy and too accessible, with too many concessions made to a successful formula for the sake of this all encompassing open world.

 

I roll my eyes a bit whenever I see a bonfire, there's just a crazy amount in this. In previous games you'd have to unlock shortcuts to the boss to get a quick route through a certain section to a boss, you had to work for it. In this and Sekiro to a lesser extent it's like 'oh there's a boss, here's a bonfire' That was pretty much the only minus I got from Sekiro in that there were far too many in that as well. They should never be about 50 feet apart. I had one yesterday where I awoke at a bonfire, travelled 10 feet by foot. followed a spirit down into a dungeon and there was another bonfire, I was like, why? Why does it need one. There's one literally 10 feet away. It makes no sense. 

[one-armed dwarf]

I think you will swallow your words when you see some of these boss fights, lol. 

 

The real boss fights I mean, not Mr mini boss in a cave. Of course you can trivialise that also with summons, if need be. But excepting Sekiro, Elden Ring definitely has the hardest cast of boss fights in the series. I'm kind of curious what it will feel like for new players.

 

edit just in addition, whenever I see a boss run in these games all I do is book it and run past all the enemies, isn't that what everyone does? I'm not sure I'm seeing what's missed here. Unfortunately there are spots where they do make you do that, but it's never anything that you can't just hold sprint to run past.

[OCH]

1 hour ago, DisturbedSwan said:

I roll my eyes a bit whenever I see a bonfire, there's just a crazy amount in this. In previous games you'd have to unlock shortcuts to the boss to get a quick route through a certain section to a boss, you had to work for it. In this and Sekiro to a lesser extent it's like 'oh there's a boss, here's a bonfire' That was pretty much the only minus I got from Sekiro in that there were far too many in that as well. They should never be about 50 feet apart. I had one yesterday where I awoke at a bonfire, travelled 10 feet by foot. followed a spirit down into a dungeon and there was another bonfire, I was like, why? Why does it need one. There's one literally 10 feet away. It makes no sense.

You say that, but I noticed it was a lot more obnoxious in Dark Souls 3 than this (so far). One I saw that was particularly ridiculous was an area that had a bonfire before the boss. Then the next in the immediate room after the boss. 

I didn't think the 'one bonfire and you work for it' approach of DeS was so bad that the series has come to this. The multi-layered level design of Dark 1, by the same token, wouldn't work in a map this big either.

[Nag]

After reading these 5 pages I'm not entirely sure I'm going to bother even booting this up...

[Maf]

20 minutes ago, OCH said:

The multi-layered level design of Dark 1, by the same token, wouldn't work in a map this big either.

 

This is the thing I was hoping the game would bring to the genre that no one has done yet. It's the one thing BotW was missing from classic Zelda. Where all the multi-layered Zelda obstacle stuff was in the game, but put in the shrines because they clearly couldn't translate it to a map where you can climb anywhere and on anything. 

 

Because Elden Ring didn't seem to have the climb anywhere stuff, I was hoping they would then be able to take the level design of Dark Souls/Bloodbourne and expand on it in an open world setting. Sounds like not, though. 

 

Whoever figures that out first is going to have a world beating game on their hands, I think. 

[OCH]

4 minutes ago, Maf said:

Because Elden Ring didn't seem to have the climb anywhere stuff

On horseback there is some added exploration. But no, I don't think I've seen any 3D open world game that matches the interconnectivity of Dark 1 or the old Zeldas. Probably be more effort than it is worth to the devs.

[one-armed dwarf]

41 minutes ago, Nag said:

After reading these 5 pages I'm not entirely sure I'm going to bother even booting this up...

I mean, I don't get this really. You might as well try it for a bit to see for yourself. A lot of the difficulty I've had so far is compounded by the way I play any open world game, which is explore a little and mainline a little.  Elden Ring is purely about the exploring though, I can see that now. If you ignore the main path a lot I don't think you'll have a big problem until waaaay later in the game, at which point you'll probably be bought in anyway

 

BTW, the game does have 'interweaved' layer cake style world design, but in a more 'macro' level and you have to wait a long while to see it.

[Nag]

It depends what kind've guides are in place I suppose... the only reason I got on with Bloodborne second time around is because I wasn't doing things blind. The whole drop you in a world and give you no guidance thing is not my bag.

[DisturbedSwan]

16 minutes ago, Nag said:

It depends what kind've guides are in place I suppose... the only reason I got on with Bloodborne second time around is because I wasn't doing things blind. The whole drop you in a world and give you no guidance thing is not my bag.

 

Seeing as you've bought it I'd at least give it a try.

 

There's plenty of guides and videos on YT already that will help you out on which role to choose, which things to level up, where to go and all that jazz. There is a very slight ray of light than emanates from the bonfires which you can follow, which usually are something to do with the main story or a key item (from what I've gathered so far anyway). You may get lost but there's so many bonfires in this that you can fast travel to a different one at any time if you've gone too far out your comfort zone into an area you don't feel comfortable in. 

[one-armed dwarf]

I mean as a start I could probably answer a lot of those kinda questions lol, I'm pretty sagely at this point in Elden matters, despite being rubbish at it.