The Hot Topic Returns

[Nag]

Not the first time I've said this but until VR doesn't include some kind of stupid visor/goggles I've no interest in it... as an optional extra fine but don't mainline that shit for the love of God Capcom.

[radiofloyd]

The obvious ones like Zelda and Final Fantasy. I remember lying on my couch with my purple Gameboy Colour absolutely falling in love with Link’s Awakening, and around the same time being a huge fan of Final Fantasy VIII which was this massive, mysterious game that I barely understood.

 

Also have to mention Monkey Island, and Broken Sword, which will be 25 this year.

 

I think if I was older, I would be talking about Ultima. I loved what I played of Ultima 7 and I’m sure it would have captured my imagination if I had been gaming back then.

[one-armed dwarf]

I think RE is such a natural fit for VR that you could make a hybrid game like REVII and nobody misses out on anything really. Survival horror is all about disempowerement and it's hard to feel powerful when it's literally you doing the stuff and moving around. It's one of the massive differences between Alyx and Gordon Freeman's games, how you're so much more feeble as Alyx. But RE is like Alyx by default.

 

The most I'd ask for is some small novel interactions (pull clip out and reload, slide back chamber) and being able to do some VR stuff with the fuel and crimson heads mechanics. Stuff that doesn't require a full commitment to VR only.

 

Of course a pure VR Resident Evil would be the best game ever but the market isn't there for it. But I think even with REVII if they ever updated that all they really need to add is proper VR aiming and you've already gotten most of what's needed.

[OCH]

10 minutes ago, one-armed dwarf said:

I think RE is such a natural fit for VR 

 

The most I'd ask for is some small novel interactions

Ala Umbrella Chronicles ?

[Nag]

Such a stupid cutscene...?

[mfnick]

Fuck, Resident Evil! Of course, that just makes the cut. Excellent pick!

 

Next gen ray traced based lighting and reflections could be used to really enhance the atmosphere and scare factor. 

[Nag]

 

Quote

Readers discuss the games that they used to think have amazing graphics but now look laughably dated, from Sonic 3D to Driver 2.

 

The subject for this week’s Hot Topic was suggested by reader Austin, and while it could include games from any era or format the vastly majority of replies involved the original PlayStation.

 

Games such as Resident Evil 2 and Gran Turismo looked amazing at the time but considerably less so now, although most found this endearing and the games themselves still fondly remembered.

 

[shinymcshine]

It irritates me when some gamers can't see beyond the graphical sheen; it's akin to dismissing older music because it doesn't have synths or an 808 on the track; classic writing because it uses 'olde English'; or TV & films that are in B&W 4:3 or don't have CGI effects.

 

The main gameplay innovations nowadays seem generally found within indie games, whilst big budget titles just often sell the graphical polish - not unfamiliar to those who now clamour for a PS5 so they can, predominantly, play nicer looking PS4 games.

 

There is a tech barrier of course, that playing retro things on your 50" 4k TV just enhances any issues (esp when a standard TV size in the past was no greater the 28", with lots just playing on a 14" portable) - hence if you really want to keep retro gaming a CRT is probably still best to keep going.

[mfnick]

Bit of a shit answer but for me you could basically say any early 3D game. All the high profile releases across PS1, Saturn, N64 etc. Perfect Dark, Mario 64, Burning Rangers, Virtua Fighter 2, Tekken 3, Donkey Kong 64, Conkers Bad Fur Day, Driver, Gran Turismo, all of them, any you can think of, while they may have been very impressive at the time, they look terrible now. Feel physically sick looking at them.

 

I think most GC, PS2 and Xbox games can actually still look alright, the problem with them is actually resolution. When they’ve been made into 4k they can still look decent enough. I imagine if I had a CRT they’d still look fine. So basically anything before then. 

[OCH]

25 minutes ago, shinymcshine said:

It irritates me when some gamers can't see beyond the graphical sheen;

The affectionately titled 'Graphics whores' do bug me. Just watch a film instead. I can go from 8-Bit to whatever PS5 Demon's Souls is, because I am playing a game and accept the fact they all look different.

 

As per the question though: pre-rendered backgrounds. A bygone memory limitation fix, granted. But the 'reality' is muddied with greater clarity of TV's these days.

[Nag]

Yeah, same answer for me... early Playstation games that switched to polygons... Gran Turismo and stuff looked awesome back in the day but they really do not hold up now, not helped by the fact they probably play at 16fps.

 

And I'm a self confessed graphics whore and damn proud of it... so bite me.?

[one-armed dwarf]

I'm usually ok going back to old games. Some of the early 3D stuff is actually back in vogue now, I've seen at least a couple attempts at making survival horror games with fixed angles with wobbly textures and polygons, they're trying to look like the first Silent Hill. 'Bad' graphics can be chic.

 

For me the distinction is between games look ugly but cool and playing well versus stuff that looks and feels bad to play. I don't think I could play something like Jumping Flash unless someone patches in a 30fps mod or something, then maybe I could get on with it. I also really still hate the whole PS3/360 gen cause they went for really bad framepacing,shit image quality, brown and bloom everywhere and terrible anti-aliasing. It felt like that gen should have settled for a lower resolution than 720p or something. The AC games on PS3 in particular had such bad screen tear. Definitely not a great period outside of exclusives which ran well on both systems. On PS3 it was probably the Cell CPU in particular which caused such bad third party games to come out on that system. PS2 and Xbox games are actually easier to go back to for me.

 

All the same I think the benefits of new hardware comes more clear with hindsight. The difference between Demon's Souls and an 8 bit game isn't purely in its look, there's just no way a game like Demon's Souls could possibly be designed without the capabilities of more advanced hardware. This gen was a bit of a holding pattern in that regard as it felt like the previous gen but with actual image stability and performance. But there's some actual exciting level and game design possibilties with the new cpus, ssd and eventually when ray tracing hardware catches up that will allow some cool stuff too. The last one has me thinking of these ubisoft rumours around a new Splinter Cell, is there a way you could implement new camoflague/hiding mechanics with real time RT.

[OCH]

17 minutes ago, one-armed dwarf said:

there's just no way a game like Demon's Souls could possibly be designed without the capabilities of more advanced hardware.

?

Spoiler

 

 

 

[one-armed dwarf]

None of those are 3D action games.

 

Like this is an argument I'm not particularly interested in having beyond just one post but you can surely see why people see those games as different. 3D space === different methods of designing obstacles for players cause they have more ways to move around. You can't jump in Demon's Souls, for instance. Only jump across small gaps. Those are game design decisions, not just graphical ones.

[OCH]

Literally all of those examples I gave also have fully realised 3D sequels (A spiritual successor in Maximo, for G&G). This isn't an argument about 3D space either. It is a graphics whore thing. As I said, I can play anything, regardless of how it looks and enjoy it as a game.  Both you and Nag are more into visuals, that's fine too. But don't try to dress it up as something else.

[one-armed dwarf]

My dude I spent most of my 2020 gaming playing terrible looking games about plague ridden meat factories in the russian steppe, one of which makes Half Life 1 look next gen lol

[OCH]

Yet also you: "This 'Valheim' thing is blowing up, the next big zoomer hit. I tried it and felt sick cause the weird PS1 textures look pretty bad in motion".

 

I've since looked it up. I don't see anything that looks like 32-bit textures...

[DANGERMAN]

1 hour ago, OCH said:

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none of those are similar to Demon's Souls in any way other than having monsters in them. I mentioned Virtual Hydlide the other day, that was notoriously awful to play, it probably wasn't until the PS2 generation you were getting smooth 3D action rpgs (I mean with full analogue movement, not something like Resident Evil or Tomb Raider) on console. PC had a few before them, but they weren't great either. You need the power then the time to work out how to do it.

 

 

I don't mind hugely how a game looks, I still play on my Saturn from time to time, and that certainly had a look with big 3D worlds. The 3D fighters I don't think have aged all that bad for the most part, things like the first Virtua Fight have a certain charm to them

 

I quite often get the opposite to this question and am impressed how something is running on old hardware. I think understanding a bit more you start to see how things were worked around which is impressive. I will say as an example for this question, the first Alone in the Dark on pc, it was amazing that it existed. By the time Resident Evil completely ripped it off Alone in the Dark already looked comically bad

[Sly Reflex]

Gran Turismo for me. Although, and this is a big thing, go look at the PS1 specs and see what it was running on. It was pulling that off on a 1mb graphics card.

[OCH]

8 minutes ago, DANGERMAN said:

it probably wasn't until the PS2 generation you were getting smooth 3D action rpgs (I mean with full analogue movement, not something like Resident Evil or Tomb Raider) on console.

Vagrant Story is the only one that comes to mind. Although it was right at the end of the PSOne life cycle. When they could get the most from it.