Maf Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 Maybe this is the way to go 😂 small screens hide a lot of bullshit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-armed dwarf Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 I can do the exact same thing with my steam deck (seen some say online it's actually better on it than Portal cause portal doesn't even have wifi6), curious what it looks like. That said, input lag and you have to be in the same room, meh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maryokutai Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 I've always disliked the concept of pro systems. For me a console should be a single SKU developers can optimise for, so that no matter what every user will have access to the same experience. When I see the arguments around Rebirth and such, throwing more hardware resources at the problem is the wrong way to look at it. It's just brute-forcing a solution instead of properly fixing the issues at hand. With this generation in particular it's even more ludicrous than the last because we basically went from playing cross-gen games to asking for pro models after seeing the first proper current-gen only titles. I also think it sets a questionable precedent, because this is a never-ending circle. No console will ever be able to do everything during its 6-8 year lifespan, so if we're accepting pro models as a necessity now, we'll basically doing it for every generation going forward as well. If selling the 'same' system multiple times to a household is the key idea here, then slim models with identical hardware features are a better way to do it imo. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metroid66 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 5 hours ago, Maf said: This is the same machine that does Spider-Man 2 - high fidelity, 60 FPS, 1440p with RT. Horizon 2 is a terrible game but second to none in terms of graphics. Even on PC where games out perform it, the look they captured on PS5 is incredible. The SSD ‘magic’ aside Ratchet & Clank on PS5 is a spectacular looking game This is were I'm standing on this issue. My eyes just don't any more clarity or FPS than these machines are currently offering. Plus I'm currently playing the directors cut of ghost of Tsushima, and the amount of stuff that's going on on screen in some of the end of chapter set pieces is mind boggling. I'd need to evolve another eye before I'd need more. Square Enix just to get off their arses and properly optimise their game. Or get Insomniac or Sucker Punch to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maf Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 35 minutes ago, Maryokutai said: I also think it sets a questionable precedent, because this is a never-ending circle. Unless some new radical graphics technology happens and upends everything, I think when frame generation comes to consoles it will end the premium console upgrade and, for the sake of this conversation assume consoles continue their cycles, it will really help alleviate a lot of these graphics issues people have right now and the need for Pro versions to extend life spans Although I say that without knowing how expensive the cost of reconstruction tech is to put in a console. It could be years away. Maybe not feasible right now for a PS5 Pro. (Apparently Nintendo are doing it for Switch 2. But their machine will definitely be cheaper and lower spec overall so maybe the pricing makes more sense? Just wild guessing) The gains you get with it are amazing, though, and lose so very little image quality in the process. In terms of tech it’s really going to be the next big thing for consoles if they can get it. Especially if 60fps remains the optimal performance target. I remember being impressed with VRR and feeling like that was a game changer. Reconstruction tech in consoles is the next one. As I was saying in my post as well. The PS5 can produce astounding graphics with some games. Mostly 1st party and some 3rd party. So I 100% agree about optimisations. Rebirth should be a big deal for PS. Unless this is really the best they can do (hard to believe considering what else runs on a PS5) not sure why PS wasn’t on the phone working very closely with Square to get the game performing better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spatular Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 not really a fan of the idea of these pro consoles but i'm an idiot so would probably buy one on the other hand i haven't played these games that apparently run badly on ps5, and don't use the ps5 much anyway so might be able to hold off buying one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-armed dwarf Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 Frame generation needs a high base framerate currently to not make the input lag too high. On PC with a mouse you can feel it even at around 45fps FG-ed up to 90, I dunno how easy a fix that would be. But that's happening here I think is two fold. Cross gen has created an expectation of 60fps as standard, and also the technical excellence of high budget first party exclusives creates an expectation of 'why arent the third parties as good at PS5?'. Which when you think about the 2nd question a bit, it sort of makes sense that Sony's own studios would be better at it. But with the first point, I think games like Rebirth and XVI are built for 30fps, notwithstanding the fact that OLED is a terrible technology wrt motion clarity at 30hz, that's not really on Sony or Square (though would be nice to have a 40fps mode, which basically fixes that). The performance mode in these third party games are mostly secondary considerations to the actual target mode, which is graphics mode, I think. The performance mode is sort of like turning the settings way down on a PC game to get it to a certain level, at least with these titles. Rebirth in general is such a strange project anyway as the way they're doing these VII games is a lot like how they did XIV, Rebirth is like an 'expansion' sequel built off of Remake. I suppose TOTK is also a bit like that, but you see just how 'complete' Rebirth is as an experience compared with Remake and you see the benefit of that kinda iteration, building off previous work and making an incredibly massive game (also with TOTK). But at the same time UE4 might be asked to do things here that it's not really built for (Alex from DF was talking the other day about it not being so great at asset streaming, and that probably causing resource problems for its lighting engine, I don't understand any of that to know the tecnicalities of it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DANGERMAN Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 The conversation has moved on a bit but I think Final Fantasy is just an edge case. For whatever reason it doesn't perform like it looks like it should, and I am one of those people that found the 30fps mode incredibly framey. It might be less about the optimisation of the game, and more about what it's doing. Unreal Engine 5 just doesn't seem worth the cost to me, it's amazing, I just don't think it's the best use of the resources when games can look really good and run well on lesser engines. FF isn't UE5, but I do wonder if there's just some stuff they're doing that isn't worth it I don't think we need Pro consoles this generation, not yet at least, I suppose it depends how long it is. I don't think there's a tech need for it, and how much it will cost, just throwing more power at the UE5 problem that's coming seems like a problem solved by just scaling back your aims to match the hardware I don't know if I'd buy the new one, I've just had to replace my PS5, so dropping the same again doesn't seem sensible. But then, as others have said, the fact I'm on a gaming forum suggests that I spend stupid money on games 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maryokutai Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 I realise this is very armchair developer territory, but Banishers runs on UE5, at a stable 60fps with a very clean and clear image. Why does a small studio in France have a better handle on current-gen production, multiformat to boot, than one of Japan's biggest juggernauts, who only had to take a single SKU into consideration during development? There are most likely valid reasons why Rebirth turned out the way it did, but as long as smaller games from fewer people can produce better results, I just see it as bad planning on their part. While thinking about this I also remembered the smart decisions SE made back on the PS2 when approaching FFXII. Larger areas and multiple party members on screen meant that they had to drastically reduce the polygon count per character compared to FFX. But IIRC they pulled off some extremely unconventional texturing work to not only make it work, but have better looking characters on the screen regardless of the technical downgrade. That's the kind of development ingenuity I find commendable, and I would assume, is still possible even on more rapidly understood homogenised systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-armed dwarf Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 FFXII had a longer development cycle than VII Rebirth, funnily enough. It was apparently a fairly hellish project, 5 years to develop. During the PS2 era. Nowadays, maybe that game would take 20 years lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCH Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 16 hours ago, one-armed dwarf said: maybe that game would take 20 years A recent quote regarding a remake of FF6 gave that as a time frame. Which is ridiculous and wouldn't have been necessary if they had just finished the DS remake series with 5 & 6. Also porting the those remakes would be cool too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maf Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 11 minutes ago, OCH said: . Also porting the those remakes would be cool too. They did to PC. Got FF4 remake on Steam. Haven’t played it though. So. It sure about the quality 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCH Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 Ohh didn't know that. I just assumed they had settled on porting the sprite remasters for FF 1-6. Square have always been quite baffling with their decisions on releases and ports. The DS FF4 was really good. Significantly harder than the original too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maf Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 The DS version is the only version I played and it was super hard. I got right up to the end on the moon and couldn’t go any further The way I remember it was each random encounter on the moon was sending my party hobbling back to a save point. And the area immediately before the moon basically gave me 2xp per battle. So that was game over for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nag Posted March 10 Author Share Posted March 10 Quote Nag says... "Do you have a comfort game?... when all else fails and you want some gaming time but just can't decide what to play is there something you can always rely on to fill the void?" As per the picture mine is Gears multiplayer... always the latest one (so Gears 5 at the minute) I can always rely on that as great way to kill a few hours... and random noobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DANGERMAN Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 Not really anything I always go back to, but I suppose in the last year or so it's been Vampire Survivors. I suspect a few of us feel like we're ticking games off so we can start the next one, Vampire Survivors is a game I just carried on playing, and have gone back to, for no discernable reason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maf Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 My ultimate comfort combo is free Tetris in a web browser and music on YT in another browser. When you just want to marinate in your own thoughts quietly in the night, it might be unbeatable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maryokutai Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 For me it used to be some multiplayer stuff like SFV or Overwatch, but I've since given up on that front because it adds a layer of stress to proceedings I don't want anymore in my life. Before that, and now after I suppose, it's always been a certain mix of arcade-ish experiences. A couple of years ago it was Sayonara Wild Hearts, at the moment it's the latest Theatrhythm game. Back in the day I also used to go back to OutRun 2 to wind off (with Shiny World as the track). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maf Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 8 minutes ago, Maryokutai said: For me it used to be some multiplayer stuff like SFV or Overwatch, but I've since given up on that front because it adds a layer of stress to proceedings I don't want anymore in my life. Yeah, I almost put Strive before I thought about how stressful it is. That’s more like a self-improvement project of highs and lows (no pun intended) than comfort. Although it is also a great game for “just playing something” rather than trying to get in to a new game, or a game that takes huge investment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCH Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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