Marvel Cinematic Universe

[HandsomeDead]

While there may enough chuds to keep a cottage industry complaining about women and non-white folk in comics films going on Youtube, it's certainly not reflected in the audiences seeing the shows and films.  And whenever they rear their heads they get dunked on all the time because it's so easy to do and they get to pat themselves on the back.  It's all boring, really, because it's the same obvious shit all the time.

It makes me wonder if these chuds are helping when the promotion of the films allude to it being some kind of consumer activism to go and see our women lead superhero movies.  See it enough and Roe will come back.

 

Anyway!

 

There's just too much of it now to me, personally.  It was just a fun thing to follow when it was a couple of films a year but now it's three or four films and I've lost count of the shows.  They're not bad per se but they just take up too much space and it's a bit obnoxious.  I'll probably get around to watching them but it's only because I'm an idiot and curious enough.  It's just habit and I wonder if that's the case for a lot of the audience.

[Nag]

I have no real interest in watching the series they're making and I can see that harming the films for me in a way... plus they've lost their best two characters anyway, the films have lost there sparkle at the moment. Even the last Spider-Man film wasn't anywhere near what it was hyped up to be.

[DANGERMAN]

Yeah I've not watched Moon Knight, err Arrow-bastard or whatever it's called, I might have missed another series. Ms Marvel was rubbish, not because it was woke, it just was, I maintain they should have leant in to it being a kids show and made it more fun.

 

Eternals was shit, Black Widow wasn't very good, Doctor Strange was alright certainly had some good bits, Spiderman the same. You can go back to Captain Marvel, Black Panther, Guardians 2, and Ant-man 2 all being dull or really, really bad.

 

It's not simply a small angry group, the Marvel output just hasn't been very good in the last few years but there's been an increasing amount of it

[one-armed dwarf]

I'm not really in the demo for any of this stuff tbh but I find the conceit of multiverses to be less interesting than Thanos trying to solve the Malthusian ceiling on a galactic level. 

 

What I think it is for me is it sort of undercuts the dramatic underpinnings of it all cause every consequence can be cancelled out of existence. It actually goes back to how the conceit is set up in the Loki series, where it completely nerfed the impact of the opening scene of Infinity War and short circuited a ton of character development so they could have a version of the character people recognised but also, you know, not dead.

 

I might not really be a fan of the MCU stuff but there's a couple of big moments that do payoff, where events chain together and culminate explosively cause of the time investment people have with the characters. But I feel like multi-verse obliterates the emotional aspect of all that. I'm not fully sure why but I think that it does. I think part of it is it just feels like a story wrench to justify Disney getting hold of the X-Men IP while at the same time losing things like Spider-Man. It feels weirdly contrived in a corporate way, even if the same stuff does exist in the print form as well. But in the film format it's like now we have a story contrivance to play musical chairs with our IP.

 

Tho honestly I treat Endgame the same way I treat something like FFXIV Endwalker, it's the logical point of narrative closure to a long running story like that imo. Money speaks and the content won't stop coming in but it doesn't always mean you have to keep up with it, which was pretty liberating for me with FFXIV

 

edit and also I just think it's exhausting to be so suspicious of people for not cheer leading big franchise stuff. It's not just MCU, you see it with every big 'franchise' (another word I hate, that's the word that the corps use!). It's toxic positivity imo, people need to stop thinking so much about what other people think 

 

[DisturbedSwan]

A lot of those still got great reviews and were popular with the public in general @DANGERMAN 1 opinion doesn't equal everyone else's opinion. 

 

I loved most of Ms. Marvel, that opening episode was still fantastic to me. Moon Knight and Hawkeye were alright, the latter leaning towards bad. Doctor Strange and Spidey were bangers, as was Captain Marvel. I also didn't like Guardians 2, Black Panther and Ant-Man & Wasp was alright. Just my opinion though.

 

All I'm saying is there's no evidence at this time to suggest it isn't just a small angry group, people are still seeing these films in droves and the reviews on the whole are still mostly good. If the next film comes out and it flops like John Carter I'd start to believe some of the online grumblings, until then I will continue to think it's a vocal minority trying to stir the pot because there isn't enough straight white guys in the films anymore.

 

FWIW @Nag I don't think of the TV shows have been integral to the films, maybe Wandavision with Dr. Strange 2 but that's it really.

[DANGERMAN]

2 hours ago, DisturbedSwan said:

A lot of those still got great reviews and were popular with the public in general @DANGERMAN 1 opinion doesn't equal everyone else's opinion. 

 

Yes, that was my point, that it isn't "everyone loved it apart from the incels"

[HandsomeDead]

No, I think Martin Scorsese is definitely an incel 💀

[Maf]

I think one of my many problems with the MCU is I’ve seen it once already. Watching it build, expand and unbelievably deliver on something as insane as a 23 blockbuster film saga was pretty incredible and despite some weaker films in there it was always exciting because of the push to Thanos. Fair enough Endgame as a whole was a bit on the weaker side because for some reason it jumps through every hoop possible not to be what it has to be before finally caving and giving you the final 45 minutes of what it should have been for 2 hours. But I think about how many films can’t even land the trilogy so the fact it delivers as well as it does is pretty special. 
 

I digress 

 

But now we’re resetting and doing it again. With a general decrease in quality, less interesting characters, more slapdash tie ins, less fun cameos and lack of direction. I’ve seen this already. And I saw them do it better. 

 

Now I think Secret Wars is going to be awesome, and I feel confident on how they’re going to get there and when those blocks start being put in place it should get fun again. But the current lot of films/shows aren’t really pushing towards it except for Loki and Dr Strange 2 (kind of), and even those titles were Ok to pretty Ok. Instead it’s spaghetti at the wall kind of all over the place and the spaghetti’s not cooked enough either
 

So I feel like when things start coordinating more it’ll get fun again. But still I’ve already seen it once. Trying to do the same thing again but significantly not as good. How are you supposed to stay excited?

[DisturbedSwan]

Christ, I don't know where to start with that.

 

You've got a different perspective than me obviously as you've read the Comics and know a lot of these story lines already. 

 

For me the Multiverse Saga involving different Dimensions, Universes, timelines is wholly different than the Infinity Saga. Thanos and that saga were absolutely incredible, as was the slow build up to it over many years. I think this issue is people don't have any patience, when Iron Man and Cap came out were there people shouting 'we want Thanos!' etc. and being bored, no they were just enjoying those films for what they are. 

 

The issue (if there is one) is IW and Endgame were so good that going back to laying to groundwork to build up to another culmination in 2025 with Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars feels like a disappointment, they want to skip straight to 2025 and not bother with all the carefully introduced new characters. You said it yourself for Secret Wars they need a lot of characters, that's what they're slowly laying the groundwork for, the alternative would be just throwing them all in and hoping folks know and care, I don't think that's what anyone wants.

 

From what I understand about Comics is they're cyclical, so I don't really get why you object to the MCU resetting after Endgame really, a new cycle has to begin, how else can it continue? Would you really want them to just do a DC and put solo movies out after Endgame and that's it. 

 

I get the slow build up and perceived slight dip in quality is frustrating to some folks but I just don't understand how you can look at the roadmap shown at SDCC and be pessimistic about the future? 2023 alone looks fucking banging. 

[Nag]

Why should anyone who currently thinks the last stage has been lacking think there's going to be a massive surge in quality by movie titles alone?

[OCH]

15 hours ago, Maf said:

But now we’re resetting and doing it again. With a general decrease in quality, less interesting characters, more slapdash tie ins, less fun cameos and lack of direction. I’ve seen this already. And I saw them do it better. 

This doesn't equate this:

4 hours ago, DisturbedSwan said:

so I don't really get why you object to the MCU resetting after Endgame really, a new cycle has to begin, how else can it continue? Would you really want them to just do a DC and put solo movies out after Endgame and that's it. 

So I don't know where you read the objection there?

4 minutes ago, Nag said:

Why should anyone who currently thinks the last stage has been lacking think there's going to be a massive surge in quality by movie titles alone?

Exactly that. I was very frosty to the MCU for a while. I've mellowed since. But, it's clear to me they have been spinning their wheels with this phase.

[OCH]

Oh and there was another MCU trailer, the other day:

 

Personally, I thought this the least interesting of the three...

[DisturbedSwan]

20 hours ago, Nag said:

Why should anyone who currently thinks the last stage has been lacking think there's going to be a massive surge in quality by movie titles alone?

 

I don't really know why it wouldn't be? Every phase before Phase 4 (and even some has Phase 4) has been banging, but in your mind one 'bad' phase means all future ones are going to be shit? I don't really get the logic there.

 

There's more known quantities next year, GOTG3 for example by the same director James Gunn, Ant-Man 3 by the same director Peyton Reed, fucking Blade as a character is rad as fuck and they've got a great actor to play him, then Captain America 4 next year and a lot of unannounced films, on paper it looks more exciting than Phase 4, to me at least.

 

I've no reason to doubt Marvel at all personally, they still put out more bangers than duds, for me anyway.

[Nag]

3 hours ago, DisturbedSwan said:

but in your mind one 'bad' phase means all future ones are going to be shit?

 

Did I say that?... I'm pretty certain I didn't.

[Maf]

I watched Thor Love & Thunder and damn this movie is great. 

 

One of the things I was hearing about this movie is they didn't get the balance between action and comedy right. But I actually think this is a far better balanced movie than Ragnarok. Which is a film I really liked, but Ragnarok is a straight comedy and the actual story and things that happen in that movie have no weight at all. For me it's a film that's enjoyed purely as a comedy and not much else. 

 

Love & Thunder I think is no way near as funny. That is probably it's only real failing is the jokes aren't great. But the overall better balance gives way for more story, better characters, I actually cared what was happening to the heroes in the film. Particularly Jane. 

 

Their version of Gorr, well. Maybe more on him in a bit. I'll say overall I'm happy with this version of him, I think Christian Bale played him in a really unexpected way and I enjoyed his creepy personality and overacting. But he is no way near as threatening as the comic book version. Comic book version eats this guy for breakfast, but given the film their making, I still enjoyed this Gorr overall.

 

Not much more to say without getting in to spoilers but I though this movie was also really creative. The Shadow Realm thing they do was super cool. I also think they weave story beats together really nicely. Like when Jane first gets the hammer it's like well that was convenient. Then they actually explain it later in less than a minute but it was perfectly good answer and I accept it completely. The same goes for the relationships with the story around the hammers. Obviously part of Thor's character is he's hammer and the way it's been passed around and thrown away in other Marvel films I never really liked. I know people love the Cap scene in Endgame, but frankly, it is a hype moment but it's not good story. Cap's weapon is the shield. 

 

Anyway. In this they deal with the hammers and all these things in a really funny and silly way, but it completely worked for me and the way this film ends it's like ahh. All is right again. 

 

One other thing I think is a huge positive for this film is the design and visuals. Funny that Multiverse of Madness was supposed to be this really crazy film that goes to all these places and has all these looks. Love and Thunder kicks the crap out of it in that sense. 

 

It's not like a top 5 Marvel movie, but considering the kind of drought Marvel has gone through recently like we talked about this week. This was a really strong movie and felt more in line with prime Marvel, if that's a thing I can call it, I dunno. 

 

Also Mighty Thor indeed. Bring her back. The action in this movie is excellent (especially the 3 vs 1 fight near the end) and Jane is usually the star of the action scenes 

[OCH]

She-Hulk Episode 6

This episode was the best of the last three, which isn't a particularly high bar. But, the B-plot outshone the A-plot in every way. 7/10

[Maf]

Oh shit Hugh Jackman returning as Wolverine in Deadpool 3!

 

 

[DisturbedSwan]

Super fucking hyped.

[Nag]

Really cool that they get to do that... it'll probably be a three minute cameo but still cool.

[one-armed dwarf]

He's on the logo so it would need to be more than that or people will feel very ripped off.

 

edit seen speculation that the original idea for this was a sort of buddy cop comedy with logan and deadpool