Death Stranding

[one-armed dwarf]

I'm actually looking forward to this now, if only cause I've done that Nier raid 7 times and still not got the 2B outfit... ☹

 

So something that's a different type of boring sounds right up my street rn ?

[regemond]

22 hours ago, wiivo 2.0 said:

A lot of people couldn’t handle the first 30 minutes of read dead 2.

 

I think on reflection RD2 is now seen as a divisive game though. The reviews were overwhelmingly positive, then started to talk about the negatives, which were amplified by user reviews when it finally came out.

 

I genuinely think DS will be a case of divisive reviews before release, a lot of positive user reviews in the vein of Rick and Morty/intelligence required to enjoy it, and it becoming a bit of a cult hit. It's not a game for me, but it's something I'll get when it inevitably goes to the PlayStation Hits range.

[one-armed dwarf]

I think @Maf is right in that this could be a more interesting game to talk about than actually play (if you like talking big galaxy brain conversations about weird games)

I really liked reading these reviews 

https://kotaku.com/death-stranding-the-kotaku-review-1839474313

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/d3ajqv/death-stranding-review

 

Quote

Death Stranding is a fun, immersive suspense game about people doing fairly ordinary and boring jobs in the face of terrifying and unknowable dangers

I like this idea, in theory. In practice, lets see.

[DisturbedSwan]

RDR2 is seen as a divisive game amongst the general public @regemond but the critics consensus is still that of critical acclaim.

 

DS has got overwhelmingly positive critical reviews but I anticipate it being divisive amongst the general public too. 
 

I’m hoping I’ll find it fun to play and talk about @one-armed dwarf, I honestly have no idea what I’ll think of it or even if I’ll like it but goddamn I wanna see what’s in that game with my own eyes. 

[regemond]

44 minutes ago, Blakey said:

RDR2 is seen as a divisive game amongst the general public @regemond but the critics consensus is still that of critical acclaim.

 

The reviews give tons of praise, yeah, but a few mainstream gaming sites were littered with harsher criticism after release. Still lots of praise too, but definitely a fair bit of negativity. Mainly centred around the dedication to realism that's so extreme it detracts from the gameplay. It's also why I think you shouldn't give a fuck about reviews or Metacritic aggregates and just play it regardless. We all know reviews don't tell the full story.

 

For whatever reason its piqued your interest and got you on board. With the awful shit I play I can't judge anyone for what they want to experience (except Metal Gear Survive - dude, wtf?) so I hope it grabs you as much as you want it to.

[one-armed dwarf]

I just think that big games like RDR2 will just expose a lot of confirmation bias in their reviews. The reviews didn't really represent how the public reacted to that game at all, but then when you listen to coverage of the game post release on places like Waypoint and Giantbomb (shh) and lots of others you hear a much more divided response.

 

But you don't get this in a Metascore, cause it's an immense game and reviewers are overloaded with shit to review. Maybe it's not much known here but a lot of reviewers have to play through these games in their down time, which can lead to burnout when you're obliged to play through this impenetrable Western epic or postmodern delivery sim. So you put a few hours in and then offload it to someone who's more into what these games are putting down. It's just too much to expect someone who hates a game to spend 80 hours of their life confirming that and being miserable and writing a miserable review.

 

I'm not trying to say review scores are all bullshit, but metascores almost definitely are 90% of the time for anything which isn't super safe and accessible like a Gears of War or a Call of Duty.

 

Like take this, DMC5 is one of the best reviewed games of the year on MC. That same game suffers from abysmal level design and is basically all just about combat. The confirmation bias there is weirdos like myself who are totally fine with a game which suffers that kind of imbalance. The metascore is best ignored and people should just read some of the high score reviews and compare them to the low score ones to actually get a sense of what the game could be like.

8 minutes ago, regemond said:

except Metal Gear Survive - dude, wtf?

This is literally Kojima making that game himself though ?

[DisturbedSwan]

I get where you're coming from @regemond and I agree to an extent. I actually expected DS to review worse than it has (I predicted a 78MC Average) so the reviews have been surprisingly good in my mind. Also Metal Gear Survive is amazing and more people should play it. I do think reviews are a useful guide but it's true they don't tell the full story.

 

1 hour ago, one-armed dwarf said:

I just think that big games like RDR2 will just expose a lot of confirmation bias in their reviews. The reviews didn't really represent how the public reacted to that game at all, but then when you listen to coverage of the game post release on places like Waypoint and Giantbomb (shh) and lots of others you hear a much more divided response.

 

But you don't get this in a Metascore, cause it's an immense game and reviewers are overloaded with shit to review. Maybe it's not much known here but a lot of reviewers have to play through these games in their down time, which can lead to burnout when you're obliged to play through this impenetrable Western epic or postmodern delivery sim. So you put a few hours in and then offload it to someone who's more into what these games are putting down. It's just too much to expect someone who hates a game to spend 80 hours of their life confirming that and being miserable and writing a miserable review.

 

I'm not trying to say review scores are all bullshit, but metascores almost definitely are 90% of the time for anything which isn't super safe and accessible like a Gears of War or a Call of Duty.

 

Like take this, DMC5 is one of the best reviewed games of the year on MC. That same game suffers from abysmal level design and is basically all just about combat. The confirmation bias there is weirdos like myself who are totally fine with a game which suffers that kind of imbalance. The metascore is best ignored and people should just read some of the high score reviews and compare them to the low score ones to actually get a sense of what the game could be like.

 

This is literally Kojima making that game himself though ?

 

Possibly, we don't know what goes on it each reviewers' mind when they're reviewing a game, a lot of subconscious thoughts and feelings can probably come into it, even things like recent happy/sad life events and their day-to-day mood can affect a review and thus its review score. Those are literally 2 outlets though dude, maybe branch out a bit onto the positive side of the internet and see what others think about the game? Read a lot of the Positive RDR2 reviews too, there's words behind those scores.

 

I think all of us including yourself conform to confirmation bias at some point or another. If we're really looking forward to a game and it gets shitty review scores then we're all disappointed, correct? Likewise if we've been really negative about a game and then negative reviews come out we're pleased because we were 'right' about it, correct? It's why you watch/read sites like Giant Bomb because overall you're quite a hard gamer to please, Giant Bomb's staff likewise so therefore you feel an affinity with them. They largely tell you what you want to hear. Similar with me with Easy Allies etc. I'm not some Saint or something. I'm a positive guy and overwhelming negativity bums me out in all walks of life.

 

I disagree, Metascores are a valuable tool for judging the critical consensus of a game, that is all. As you say it is for the consumer to then dive into said positive and negative reviews contained within Metacritic and peruse over them. Unfortunately not many people do though - myself included a lot of the time - because of Spoilers and other reasons. It's also true people won't even play a game to know whether they'll actually like it or not if they get negative reviews and take said negative reviews and gospel, echoing someone else's opinion of a 'bad' game as their own.

 

I can only hope 84% critically loved DS is as good as 60% critically divisive Metal Gear Survive, that game is honestly amazing ?‍♀️

 

 

[one-armed dwarf]

27 minutes ago, Blakey said:

Likewise if we've been really negative about a game and then negative reviews come out we're pleased because we were 'right' about it, correct?

No, and I think this is where you misunderstand me (and a lot of others itt). Maybe when I was younger I could subscribe to this sort of tribalism (yeah! FFXIII sucks dudes look at Jim Sterlings review! Look at what he said about ACII, I was so right!)

But now I prefer to be pleasantly surprised by something being great when I thought it would be otherwise. BOTW is one of these. I thought that game looked bad before release and was really happy to learn that it's actually maybe one of the greatest game I've ever played.

 

Like when I post in here about my doubts on DS, I'm not sitting here rubbing my hands for the moment post release when Blakey pops in and says "Guys I was wrong! Dwarf was right! OMG!". I don't care about things like this. I'm trying to share my own take on what I'm seeing with this game which is a very weird sim-like experience that I haven't got along with in the past. But I'm excited all the same to be challenged by weird bullshit like this game.

 

It's a different thing being 'negative' about a game (ie, I hope this does bad. Which I actually do think about Stadia cause I hate what it represents, so yes I have a negative bias there that I'm happy to admit to) and having a cynical opinion on something where I think some of this looks interesting, but I really have strong doubts about how it all works. Death Stranding.

 

I find it interesting you mention positivity here when I mention Waypoint and Giantbomb. Listen to what Brad, Alex and Abby have to say about RDR2 on the Giantbomb GOTY podcast. They consider it one of the greatest games they've ever played. It just didn't land with everyone on the team. Waypoint also talk about games in a way that I find really exciting cause they're the only outlet other than maybe Kotaku that I find are able to 'unpack' a game and engage with it in a way like literary theorists do, even if some of their takes are a little contrived from time to time (and they do get very precious about certain themes as well)

 

I personally didn't watch a single preview of RDR2 cause I wanted to see what the big deal was on release. I did not expect it to be a Shenmue cowboy game and it just wasn't for me at all. It wasn't me looking for something to let me wallow in toxicity about how bad it was. In fact RDR2 was my 'distraction' game from a major life altering surgery (which I still struggle with daily), so that suggestion is a bit ridiculous. Not that you suggested this specifically about RDR2, but you are often to say I look for negative things to say about a game which I think isn't fair. I love games, just that the games I love are a bit more niche on this forum maybe, dmc, ffxiv, nier, and the conversation is very one-sided when I talk about these. 

 

Maybe this is a bit TMI but for me games are more about escape and alternate realities. Because I have these extreme limits that don't matter once you're in a game, which is why I go deep into super expressive stuff like DMC and XIV and don't get along so well with directed experiences like a ND game. Right now DS could fall into either one of these camps. I have my doubts right now, but I'll be much more happy to be wrong than right

 

edit, also my tastes almost entirely don't overlap with Giantbomb, I have much more in common with the EZA crew in fact as they play DMC, RE, XIV, lots of weird games. But I don't find them interesting commentators. I'll only watch Damiani do a XIV raid cause he's really good at that game and does all the extreme end game raiding, but that's it

[Hendo]

Dwarf is right, no-one is looking to shit on a game and pile on. We find the whole situation fascinating but it’s not about being filled with glee.

You get weirdly defensive when a game you’re looking forward to gets shit on, and I won’t ever understand that, but I don’t find joy in a game getting panned.

[DisturbedSwan]

2 hours ago, Hendo said:

Dwarf is right, no-one is looking to shit on a game and pile on. We find the whole situation fascinating but it’s not about being filled with glee.

You get weirdly defensive when a game you’re looking forward to gets shit on, and I won’t ever understand that, but I don’t find joy in a game getting panned.

 

I would hope no one on here would enjoy shitting on a game and piling on but out in the wider internet there are - unfortunately - plenty of folks like that. I think there is a certain joy some folks get from a certain game they've taken a dislike to - for many possible reasons - getting a hiding in reviews. For example I think many Kojima fans loved that Metal Gear Survive got critically mixed reviews. 

 

I disagree with a lot of folks' opinions on certain games is all, so I produce counter-arguments to it, I like to give many games the benefit of the doubt whereas many others on here do not. If you think I get 'weirdly defensive' then that's fair enough, I just like to provide my perspective - which is often different and the opposite of others on here - is all. 

 

In this case DS hasn't been 'shit on' even. I think what frustrates me the most - if anything - is people saying the game has got divisive/negative reviews when it's got overwhelmingly positive reviews overall. I'm not 'defending' this game because it's been shat on, I'm trying to put forward that none of us have played this game and that there's more to read than Nathan Brown's tweets on it or Dan Rychart's murmurings is all, there's all these positive reviews just sitting there that no one has read, they've just been fixated on the very few negative ones.

 

This isn't a MGSU situation where I'm sitting here trying to tell folks a 60MC critically mixed game that not a lot of people liked is actually a great game and worth your time. This is me saying there's more opinions out there than just the negative ones, and I think some of the takes going on are a little spicy considering none of us have played the game (and probably not many have read the many positive things people have had to say on it).

 

✌️

 

Spoiler

Will reply to @one-armed dwarf's post later because I want to play LoL now.

 

[mmmark]

I just wouldn’t bother saying anything @Blakey until playing. You have better things to do and play ?

[DisturbedSwan]

8 hours ago, one-armed dwarf said:

No, and I think this is where you misunderstand me (and a lot of others itt). Maybe when I was younger I could subscribe to this sort of tribalism (yeah! FFXIII sucks dudes look at Jim Sterlings review! Look at what he said about ACII, I was so right!)

But now I prefer to be pleasantly surprised by something being great when I thought it would be otherwise. BOTW is one of these. I thought that game looked bad before release and was really happy to learn that it's actually maybe one of the greatest game I've ever played.

 

Like when I post in here about my doubts on DS, I'm not sitting here rubbing my hands for the moment post release when Blakey pops in and says "Guys I was wrong! Dwarf was right! OMG!". I don't care about things like this. I'm trying to share my own take on what I'm seeing with this game which is a very weird sim-like experience that I haven't got along with in the past. But I'm excited all the same to be challenged by weird bullshit like this game.

 

It's a different thing being 'negative' about a game (ie, I hope this does bad. Which I actually do think about Stadia cause I hate what it represents, so yes I have a negative bias there that I'm happy to admit to) and having a cynical opinion on something where I think some of this looks interesting, but I really have strong doubts about how it all works. Death Stranding.

 

I find it interesting you mention positivity here when I mention Waypoint and Giantbomb. Listen to what Brad, Alex and Abby have to say about RDR2 on the Giantbomb GOTY podcast. They consider it one of the greatest games they've ever played. It just didn't land with everyone on the team. Waypoint also talk about games in a way that I find really exciting cause they're the only outlet other than maybe Kotaku that I find are able to 'unpack' a game and engage with it in a way like literary theorists do, even if some of their takes are a little contrived from time to time (and they do get very precious about certain themes as well)

 

I personally didn't watch a single preview of RDR2 cause I wanted to see what the big deal was on release. I did not expect it to be a Shenmue cowboy game and it just wasn't for me at all. It wasn't me looking for something to let me wallow in toxicity about how bad it was. In fact RDR2 was my 'distraction' game from a major life altering surgery (which I still struggle with daily), so that suggestion is a bit ridiculous. Not that you suggested this specifically about RDR2, but you are often to say I look for negative things to say about a game which I think isn't fair. I love games, just that the games I love are a bit more niche on this forum maybe, dmc, ffxiv, nier, and the conversation is very one-sided when I talk about these. 

 

Maybe this is a bit TMI but for me games are more about escape and alternate realities. Because I have these extreme limits that don't matter once you're in a game, which is why I go deep into super expressive stuff like DMC and XIV and don't get along so well with directed experiences like a ND game. Right now DS could fall into either one of these camps. I have my doubts right now, but I'll be much more happy to be wrong than right

 

edit, also my tastes almost entirely don't overlap with Giantbomb, I have much more in common with the EZA crew in fact as they play DMC, RE, XIV, lots of weird games. But I don't find them interesting commentators. I'll only watch Damiani do a XIV raid cause he's really good at that game and does all the extreme end game raiding, but that's it

Ok, I apologise if I misunderstood where you were coming from. I do think a lot of others think that way and I mischaracterised you as one of those people.

 

I get you, I think feeling pleasantly surprised is a nice feeling too. We disagree on BOTW but I’ll leave it there because you know my thoughts already on that game.

 

I mean it could happen, I think me and you actually agreed on MGSV? So it is very possible I won’t like DS. But yeah, I get where you’re coming from.

 

You know my thoughts on Giant Bomb so I won’t be tuning in, but I hear what you’re saying. I did try listening to the Bombcast around 2011 and I just didn’t get with them. I do like Waypoint and Kotaku though (particularly Patrick Klepek).

 

Thats fair enough. We disagree on RDR2 but I respect your take on it and apologise if I mischaracterised you again here in regards to the negativity. 
 

Fair enough. We disagree over EZA but I’ll leave it there.

[one-armed dwarf]

Look at this, we just bridged a divided community ?

 

#bridgebabies #iwantmybb #ineedscissors61

[retroed]

[one-armed dwarf]

If only Kojima knew ?

[retroed]

Mike knows.

[OCH]

In that respect, there aren't that many Gaming people I'd like to meet, other than Suda51. I was fully onboard with Kojima, until I played MGS4. Which really rubbed me the wrong way. He did the 'bait and switch' thing one too many times for me. Although I would love to hear what his plans for Silent Hills would have been.

 

As far as DS goes, I was really intrigued by what I was seeing, but as I only have a Switch at this point, I dropped off watching trailers and contributing to discussions on it. Might catch it as a LP on YouTube, but unfortunately I'm not in a position to back the game myself.

[one-armed dwarf]

It would be hard to watch an LP of this I think as it's mainly a game about making deliveries/building infrastructure.

 

The most positive review I saw of it made it out to be a sort of meditation on the value of hard, monotonous labour. 

 

As far as meeting gaming celebs goes, I was within spitting distance of Yoshi P at a Q&A at gamescom and that felt really cool. ? I did not spit at him, however

[OCH]

19 minutes ago, one-armed dwarf said:

It would be hard to watch an LP of this I think as it's mainly a game about making deliveries/building infrastructure.

 

The most positive review I saw of it made it out to be a sort of meditation on the value of hard, monotonous labour. 

 

Sounds like Shenmue ?

[DisturbedSwan]

Kojima knows they never gave it a score because they couldn't be arsed to finish it. 

 

Jokes on them! 

 

Spoiler

/s