Final Fantasy General Chat

[HandsomeDead]

I think FFIV is also worth consideration as I'd say it was the first one to really be the Final Fantasy game as we know them and set a lot of FF tropes.  Earlier ones are a little light on story.  I played the GBA version and I don't remember it being hard either.

 

I've only played some of FFV and that's the hard one, and not in a fun way.

[Maf]

FF4 is brutal depending on the version. I know the 3D remake one I played was based on the JPN version which I couldn’t complete

 

So if playing FF4 would be worth looking up which one to play, but that game is great. 
 

Unpopular opinion but I didn’t really like FF6. I thought the game was overly silly and there’s one playable character where it’s all stealing enemy moves or something 

 

I’m not saying the game is bad, but it didn’t grab me

[Metroid66]

Interesting difference of opinion there. I don't want to brutalised by pixels. 

1 hour ago, Maf said:

 

Unpopular opinion but I didn’t really like FF6. I thought the game was overly silly

 

I'm not too bothered by silliness. You have to expect that with these games. I think the reason I gave up on remake was that the silliness didn't gel for me with the depressing game world. I don't mind looking for lost cats as long as the world is beautiful. I just don't want to do it in a rubble strewn shitscape.

 

Having said that I think I'll have another go some other day on that one. It wasn't that bad to be fair. I've played worse games than that. I reckon I just wasn't up for something that laid back after playing Miles Morales. Hopefully,  remake and rebirth will be how I close out this venture.

 

 

Edit. I still plan to start FF16 next week. My classic FF run will be a casual side activity to that at the start.

[one-armed dwarf]

Remake's issue is its all set in Midgar. It's a problematic game for me cause unlike others I really love its combat, and I think it has some cool things. But it's really not FFVII at all. Midgar is only cool as a setting when its this dense pressure cooker of an opening that you eventually leave, VII works cause of the contrasts and context switches of its journey which these new games really can't do at all cause each context switch is its own game entirely. 

 

Rebirth also is not FFVII, it's more like a Disneyworld version of it. But in its somewhat vapid themepark-ness I still think it's a hugely enjoyable representation of my fondest memories of that era of FF. It's hugely successful at doing that and it's a game I recommend to people on that basis if you miss what those old games had to offer. Nowhere near as anemic and repetitive an experience as Remake, but you have to know not to overindulge on the parts that don't appeal.

 

But on the topic of VI and IV, I've beaten the GBA version of VI and played a good chunk of GBA IV. I did not like IV, I felt the characters kept getting written out in increasingly uninteresting ways and despite being the first character focused FF it made me wonder if my time would be better spent on the character-unfocused NES games cause I don't think they had it quite worked out yet in IV. I'm sure the remake is a lot better though, I'm really interested in trying that one at some point.

 

VI I didn't love as much as people online do, because a lot of people online played it in 1994 I guess whereas we didn't even get it in Europe until 2001, when FFX came out and the PSX version of VI had a demo for X with it (the idea being you were buying the demo, not FFVI..). I think though it's where modern FF really begins though, feels like a 16bit blueprint for the things they would do in VII. It has great music, probably close between it and VII for Uematsu's best

[Maryokutai]

IV is definitely more historically important than it is worth going back to without nostalgia IMO. If you're really into trying first-hand where the narrative elements and multidimensional characters came from it might be interesting to maybe play the first couple of hours until Cecil changes his wardrobe. But beyond that I don't think it'll be a particularly fun experience from a 2024 perspective.

 

I still plan on properly playing VII this year though, so that will certainly result in a couple of blasphemous posts from me.

[Maf]

14 minutes ago, Maryokutai said:

I still plan on properly playing VII this year though, so that will certainly result in a couple of blasphemous posts from me.

I got your back 👍

[HandsomeDead]

Thing is you're not going to have the same experience as someone playing it in the 90s for the first time.  You're not going to have the experience of someone who hasn't played a bunch of recent games that learned from the older ones.

 

Going back to games like this is best done with a historical curiosity and acknowledging the context of they're to be played today.  Anything that they do we'd find somewhat inexcusable now was commonly done by all games of the era

 

I'm not saying the games are beyond criticism but when I see criticisms based around things learned since it just comes across a bit pointless.  Not that they won't affect enjoyment but we know random battles in a lot of contexts suck for example, it's why you see less of it now.

 

The issue I have with older games, and I had a really big issue with this in Phantasy Star IV was clarity and communicating mechanics.  Though I think FF is a bit better at this though there is still some of that.

[mfnick]

FFVII OG really surprised me. I played through it for first time in 2020 and I fucking adored it still. Jumping straight up my favourite game list. If I played that back in the 90’s I can’t imagine how obsessed I would be with it. Don’t know why it was able to click with me so we’ll even this late on (first few hours wee rough though while adjusting to the graphics) but it’s a genuine masterpiece in gaming IMO. 
 

Recently got the pixel remasters on PS5 so looking forward to trying IV and VI. 

[Metroid66]

1 hour ago, Maryokutai said:

 

I still plan on properly playing VII this year though, so that will certainly result in a couple of blasphemous posts from me.

Remake or original?

 

[Maryokutai]

1 hour ago, HandsomeDead said:

I'm not saying the games are beyond criticism but when I see criticisms based around things learned since it just comes across a bit pointless.  Not that they won't affect enjoyment but we know random battles in a lot of contexts suck for example, it's why you see less of it now.

 

I'm half joking because it's such a beloved game and it will obviously never take the same spot in my mind as it does for someone who played it on release day.

But generally speaking I'm okay with going back to old JRPG. I think it's a genre that has managed to age relatively gracefully, at least from the 16bit era onwards. 

 

 

36 minutes ago, Metroid66 said:

Remake or original?

 

The original. The German version I tried as a kid was 'beta version of google translate' levels of poop.

[one-armed dwarf]

Ironically the first time I played FFVII Remake was a demo in German, with German Barret barking orders at me to be a bit more schnell about killing the giant scorpion. 

 

Still fucked it up despite the language barrier 🕶️

[Maf]

I was thinking about throwing the idea out of a FF7 Original forum play through just so we can all talk about why the game is great

 

And the very many reasons why the game is also not that great

 

But I was playing it through on Switch again last year and know I just don’t have the willpower to get though this game again. All the bad mini games beat me down. 
 

Overall I think FF7 is a true video game classic for how important it is, it’s impact, it’s influence, etc. But at the same time I feel like the good and bad gets lost in the reverence 

 

It’s got that Star Wars 1 thing going on where it’s a really good film and important for lots of reasons. But then you watch Obi Wan fight Darth Vader and it’s like ahhh maybe not everything about this is the absolute gold plated masterpiece legend has made it out to be

 

And even though context or lack their of will change/affect how people think of it today, there’s bit of game in FF7 that I think were never that great. But it got swept away though nostalgia and fandom 

[one-armed dwarf]

imo, people get too hung up on details like this. Flaws can be interesting, especially imo if you bring that historical curiosity to it that HD mentions. My defense for that Obi Wan fight is it offers the most clear inflection point between Star Wars and its classic samurai film influences. I think if you have a historical curiosity of the way these different eras bleed into each other and share influence, it just makes them more interesting to revisit even if the actual fight itself isn't as kinetic as the modern films (eps 1-3, 7-9), or as full of intergenerational torment as its direct sequels. 

 

It's stuff building off of each other, it's all interesting to me cause you hear the dialogue happening in the background between these different filmmakers, and can feel Lucas' love of them. The first two Star Wars films are the only ones I have time for, cause part 2 is where it emerges more confidently into its own unique creation but the jankness of part 1 is just showing the strain of its craft, and I think that's an undervalued part of it

 

I do think though that the scene could do with a few more camera cuts when Alec Guinness tries spinning around, a not so good trick for a geriatric. 

[Maf]

I mean, calling some of the bits in FF7 flaws is what I mean. Running around a desert waiting for something to happen. Trying to find the perfect spot to jump on a dolphin. Whatever that ancient maze dungeon is, I forget.

 

Like there are parts of it that just aren’t very good. 
 

And that’s not to say it’s all like that. The majority of the game is good. But there are things in the game which isn’t about, oh look at the technological limitations or the ambition and how they couldn’t quite achieve it. That sort of defence I would save for the graphics and characters and such which are charming in their outdated, limited kind of way

 

But then you get to the gold saucer where it’s never ending mini game shit which is just such a huge time waste. And fans be like “ Oh, but look you go on a date” and I’ve always been like yeah but the video game part. 

[mfnick]

For me the whole experience just outweighed any rough bits like those mentioned to the point they don’t matter at all. 

[OCH]

@Metroid66I'll give you an objective rundown on Classic FF recommendations. I played 1-6 for the first time after 7-9 (there was a collection released for PSOne at the time). So I don't have any nostalgia goggles for any pre-PSOne FF.

 

FF1 - No

FF2 - No

FF3 - No

FF4 - Yes

FF5 - No

FF6 - Yes

The 3 & 4 DS Remakes (if you have access to them) I would recommend over the 2D games.

FF7, 8 & 9 - Yes

 

50 minutes ago, Maf said:

I was thinking about throwing the idea out of a FF7 Original forum play through just so we can all talk about why the game is great

Even after being burned when the FF9 forum playthrough was snubbed (I still enjoyed the best PSOne FF, regardless). I'd be down for FF7. I could mix-max the hell out of it and likely reach some ridiculous level by the time I left Midgar🤓

[one-armed dwarf]

tbh, my obi wan analogy doesn't even fit into this discussion of minigames cause outside of that one shitty one where you sneak past some guards and that one where you grab a swinging pipe I don't even really regard them as major flaws with the game as such. They are a big part of what gives the game its diverse flavour, the little gimmicks and novel interactions. It makes it feel larger than its runtime. Like a complete adventure in a huge world you hang out in rather than a series of encounters back to back where you innovative in new ways to set as many wolves on fire as possible at the same time with your levelled up materia.

 

This is actually the part of FFVII that Rebirth quadruples down on btw, so you might want to reconsider if you want to catch up cause it's all about that. Of course there are some bad ones too, and in fact Rebirth surpasses the original game in this regard cause its bad minigames are worse than any of the ones in VII. But like mfnick says, I would say for both games the high points elevate the whole thing. You got to imo look at the whole thing as a complete composition, accepting that some parts of it are doing a lot more heavy lifting than others, rather than fixating on the bits which are not as good

 

Unless of course there are so many of those bits they distract from the entire thing, which is fair. It's just I don't feel like that about it

[Maf]

11 minutes ago, one-armed dwarf said:

You got to imo look at the whole thing as a complete composition, accepting that some parts of it are doing a lot more heavy lifting than others

 

This is what I’m saying, but just from the other side. There’s really good stuff in the game, obviously. But it’s also an uneven game. And I get that for a lot of people the good bits are worth pushing through the rest. But literally every time I’ve played it the struggle got more real. I got to the Costa Sol bit on the Switch last year and reached the limit

 

But that’s all I have to say on it. FF7 is an all time classic and I’m not trying to talk bad about a game I generally like. But for me the rougher parts are what stop me from liking it as much as everybody else does

 

Also I was curious about the differences in FF4 earlier, because I know they exist but I didn’t know what they were specifically

 

Yeah. I would say counter to @OCH don’t play the 3D DS remake. The game is a bastard (unless you’re in to that than here’s a ball gag to go with the game) 

 

[Maryokutai]

I keep mentioning how much I like FFXII but the last five hours of that game are absolute dogshit. Doesn't change my extremely high opinion on it though. But there's just something about that genre that seems to challenge its designers to throw whatever they want at the wall and then mix the stuff that sticks with the stuff on the floor when they pick ideas to put in the game. I think it's a good point that a lot of this stuff adds to the depth of each game's setting, because fundamentally the entire gameplay backbone of most JRPGs is just running around and engaging with its battle system. Which is why these old FF games don't get many recommendations here in this topic, because that's all they were doing back then.

[Metroid66]

1 hour ago, OCH said:

Even after being burned when the FF9 forum playthrough was snubbed (I still enjoyed the best PSOne FF, regardless). I'd be down for FF7. I could mix-max the hell out of it and likely reach some ridiculous level by the time I left Midgar🤓

 

I did join you in that eventually (this is bellow, by the way) although I tapped out because I couldn't follow the plot at all.

 

But, yeah, I'll wait on a FF7 run if anyone is planning it.