Final Fantasy General Chat

[Maryokutai]

The official Playstation magazine recently ranked the mainline FF games:

 

16. Final Fantasy XI
15. Final Fantasy I
14. Final Fantasy II
13. Final Fantasy III
12. Final Fantasy V
11. Final Fantasy XIII
10. Final Fantasy IV
09. Final Fantasy VIII
08. Final Fantasy XV
07. Final Fantasy X
06. Final Fantasy VI
05. Final Fantasy VII
04. Final Fantasy XIV
03. Final Fantasy IX
02. Final Fantasy VII Remake
01. Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age

 

I don't agree with everything but I sure do with the top spot. It's interesting how the opinion about that game has turned since its initial release. I still remember it being sneered at back in the day for being so different and it basically carrying the mantle of black sheep up until XV (which in contrast will probably never see a turnaround of opinions like this, even though I liked it). I know Zodiac Age is mechanically a way better version of the game but I don't think that's the sole reason it's faring better today than in 2006. I just flew right past the zeitgeist at the time and with FFX bringing a lot of new people to the franchise, having a more grounded and mature experience in the "direct" sequel was inevitably going to turn off all these new people.

 

XI at the bottom is kind of weird though. I remember that game being rather well-liked back in the day. XIV obviously completely overshadowed it later but that's not a reason to put it so low IMO.

[Snaggletooth]

Having recently replayed XII i thought initially I was wrong about it years back but as it went on it got more ofa drag and the characters/story less and less interesting.

Wouldnt say its the worst in the series ,but for my opinion certainly wouldnt break out the bottom half.

[one-armed dwarf]

People who played XI consider it a really cool game with lots of open world emergent stuff, back then MMOs were very arcane and not these super polished 'theme parks' they are now. You had to invest a lot of time into going out and meeting people even just to explore which is something that today's more polished experiences don't provide. That sense of friction. So I guess whoever made that list did what I did and try it out once and delete it. I would like to just see the story of XI at some point but it has a weird issue where the control scheme is horrible for consoles and horrible for PC all at once. 

 

XII is super interesting in its re-released form for all the different party compositions you can go for, also it has some crazy difficulties like playing the whole game at level 1. It's infinitely replayable. Dunno about VII Remake being so high especially above the real FFVII. That first game was just a perfect storm of tech and square's story telling and VIIR was just so padded and drawn out in comparison to the epic journey of the original. VIIR only has a handful of events in it that they drag out for ages

 

Obviously XIV is probably my favourite at this point but with lots of caveats. I can no longer recommend it to people cause they have 4 entire campaigns chock block full of boring fetch quests to catch up on the genuinely great over-arching story. It's frustrating, I love and hate parts of it. Emet Selch is genuinely the best villain I've seen in a Japanese game, not just Final Fantasy. I wish I could explain why but the whole effect of following that story over 6 or 7 years for me is the same as I imagine extremely commited MCU fans feel when they see massive moments happen in Infinity War. Like it's hard not to cry sometimes, but it's also hard not to cry when you are made to just spend hours doing nonsense to progress the main story.

 

All of this here, pure kino if you can get past the low budget MMO design (I dunno who this dude is just first video I saw). But it all works on built up investment and accumulation of detail from the story itself, otherwise it's just some anime stuff

 

 

I'll just spoil the story of Shadowbringers I guess

 

Spoiler

the story is mostly the villain's backstory, these shadowey necromancers who lived in a different world eons ago and want to return the current universe to its previous state to save all their loved ones. Which involves a Thanos style murdering of everyone in the universe to reuinite their souls into a higher form, because all the people in FFXIV are fragments of these older forms. You learn all this cause the main villain joins your party and judges your progress, it's like a huge retro-active rehabilitation of characters you took to be mostly 1 dimensional bad dudes. So when you have to actually kill this guy as you inevitably do it hits very different to dispatching any other FF villain. Except Ardyn maybe, who's built out of the same narrative ideas more or less. But it's done better here just due to how long the story is

 

[OCH]

While I don't hate FF12, I wouldn't put it anywhere near the top of the list. FF7R is a strange one to place in a list of "mainline" FF titles, as it isn't one. It would be like a list of mainline RE titles including the PSOne games and their remakes. Because if that counts, then the remade versions of FF4 and 5 on DS are 100% better than the original games. So which versions are counted on this list?

FF9 being the highest of the default, non-remastered games does please me though.

[one-armed dwarf]

This always makes me lol

 

 

Dunno if it was on here or elsewhere recently where someone was talking about the zodiac spear in FFXII, but basically Square did this shit all the time in this era where they put impossible to figure out knowledge in strategy guides that clerks at gamespot would upsell you on. Except with FFIX they took it one step further and used the shitty guide to further upsell their shitty website that nobody cared about (except people who needed to login to FFXI)

 

This is one aspect of Square I'm not nostalgic for, they don't do it anymore now. FFVII Remake and FFXV have no obscure weird bullshit in them, no need for guides.

[Maryokutai]

That wasn't a Square exclusive though, that's been pretty much part of the JRPG DNA since the 32bit era. It's not quite as ridiculous anymore but there are still "features" in modern JRPGs that almost literally ask you to turn over every stone in the game world to finish the game at 100%. I doubt it's about selling guides these days but rather just a tradition, but the fact that they take so long to complete also certainly helps in the social media age.

[OCH]

14 hours ago, one-armed dwarf said:

FFVII Remake and FFXV have no obscure weird bullshit in them, no need for guides.

To me, I read that as they have no secrets to them. That they are purposely linear experiences for shortened attention spans. 

 

Example:

In the SRPG Vandal Hearts (PSOne), there is a hidden, ultimate job class for the lead protagonist - The Vandalier. Within which is the standard stat upgrades, alongside access to every single spell in the entire game. Even those previously exclusive to enemies. In other words, it is game breakingly OP.

To unlock it, you have to find certain random patches of ground on various battle maps and examine them. Take the newly discovered Key (one of six) to a Dojo (this game's churches) and exit. This leads to additional dialogue and unique challenge maps aka Trials. Complete these to get an Orb and you eventually unlock the job class.

This is a reward for exploration, as the game tells you none of this. Plus, it doesn't change anything if you don't get it. You also can either find this yourself or with a guide.

 

Removing that reward, for essentially getting your money's worth out of a game, isn't a good thing. As once again, you are paying more money for less content.

[one-armed dwarf]

Och you don't always have to sound so cool all the time talking shit on games you haven't played and slamming us with trivia about stuff no-one else has played you know ?

 

Like if you had played vii r it would be one thing but you've not

[radiofloyd]

My top three will always be the PS1 trilogy (especially VIII and IX), with VI and X rounding out the top five. Loved FFVII Remake too though.

[OCH]

I wasn't talking about the games (Also I have played FFXV) I was referring directly to your quote. Nor was I "talking shit" about either of them. Being "the youngest in the forum", it probably wasn't clear enough for you to understand?

 

[Maryokutai]

15 minutes ago, OCH said:

To unlock it, you have to find certain random patches of ground on various battle maps and examine them. 

[...]

This is a reward for exploration

 

I wouldn't call that exploration, that's just tedious busywork nobody would ever do if they didn't know it could be linked to a secret. I like finding secret stuff and I'm fine with missing secret stuff that was well hidden, in a reasonable way, but this just seems like torture.

[OCH]

11 minutes ago, Maryokutai said:

 

I wouldn't call that exploration, that's just tedious busywork nobody would ever do if they didn't know it could be linked to a secret. I like finding secret stuff and I'm fine with missing secret stuff that was well hidden, in a reasonable way, but this just seems like torture.

Very hidden stuff has been a thing in all RPG's for a long time. Probably early 16 bit. Shining Force 1, for example. If you cast the Escape/Egress spell in the very first map, it takes you to the home of a new party member. If you don't do that, you never find him by conventional means. Most first time players wouldn't. Why would you run away from the very first fight?

 

 

10 minutes ago, Nag said:

Ouch...

 

 

That's pretty subjective really, one playthrough of Remake took me around 40 hours... that's definitely value for money in my book, especially as it's actually a very good, fun game.

To be fair, that is more a thing with modern Fighters specifically, these days. But secrets like the Weapon fights in older FF's. It kept you coming back. Because there was more to see than playing the main storyline. You just had to find it.

[OCH]

Games with multiple endings are still like that though. Any of the [good] Silent Hill games have that in abundance. The most protracted modern example I heard of not too long ago would be the Lord of Hollows ending in Dark Souls 3:

 

 

Spoiler

The Lord of Hollows Ending, also called the Usurpation of Fire, is arguably the best ending in Dark Souls 3 due to its complexity and implications. This ending involves interactions with several important NPCs, including Yoel and Yuria of Londor, as well as Anri of Astora. Players seeking the Lord of Hollows ending must be very careful with how they pursue certain activities throughout the game, as simple mistakes can prevent this ending entirely.

Obtain Five Dark Sigils from Yoel of Londor

First, you must find Yoel of Londor amongst the pilgrims outside just before the gate to the Undead Settlement. Speak with Yoel and accept his services. This will recruit Yoel to become a merchant at Firelink Shrine, where he sells various items.

To locate Yoel in Firelink Shrine, head down the stairs to the left of the blacksmith, and proceed to the end of the corridor. Speak with Yoel and select Draw Out True Strength. Do this five times to receive five Dark Sigils, granting you five free levels in the process. Do not heal the Dark Sigils at the Fire Keeper. You need all of the Dark Sigils from Yoel to complete the Lord of Hollows ending.

 

The Dark Sigils cause Hollowing points to show up within your stats upon death, but don’t worry. Hollowing doesn’t come with the same negative effects as it did the previous games. For each level and Dark Sigil gained from Yoel, you will need to obtain a certain amount of hollowing in order to continue drawing your true strength each time. After gaining a Dark Sigil, proceed to die repeatedly so that you can raise your Hollowing number and obtain the next Dark Sigil from Yoel.

It is important to obtain these first five Dark Sigils from Yoel before reaching the Catacombs of Carthus. Yoel will die as soon as you enter the Catacombs, so make sure you have received all five Dark Sigils from him before proceeding to this area. The Catacombs are found down the stairwell that opens after fighting the Abyss Watchers, so make sure you’re ready before continuing.

Once you have obtained five Dark Sigils, Yoel will die. It’s ok, he has fulfilled his purpose. A woman named Yuria of Londor will take his place, and you’ll find her standing a few steps away from Yoel’s remains in Firelink Shrine.

I'm all for looking under that suspicious rock in a RPG town. But this seems a bit much, even for me.?

[OCH]

Something like this, you mean:

 

 

[OCH]

I only did it the once. The sigil stuff of FFX wasn't fun.

[mfnick]

Very happy to see Remake so high in that list. OG VII is too low though. Whereas IX and XV are waaaaaay too high. 
 

Not played XII because the combat system really doesn’t appeal from what I’ve heard so can’t really comment on that being at the top. 

[one-armed dwarf]

Its not very fashionable to put VII high these days i think.

 

The actual worst mini game in ffx is the bird race with the balloons cause its basically just RNG wasting your time

 

Also I forgot how bad the secret stuff is in X-2. You have to talk to completely missable NPCs and do things not far off the example Nag provides to see the true ending of that game. Its not a bad thing that these games stopped being like this and it has absolutely nothing to do with peoples attention spans. Video games are already a big driver in lowered attention span anyway so its such a weird argument to me.

[Maf]

Warning: This post/news will make you feel depressed and old (But jokes on you Final Fantasy, I'm already both, ha!)

 

 

I can't believe they put Zack in the logo. Shameful. 

[one-armed dwarf]

FFVII Remake 

Spoiler

I fully expect Zack to become the main character of the ffvii remake sequel or something at some point

 

edit speaking of, they just said they will be showing the sequel off this year probably

 

remake spoils

Spoiler

I wonder if at some point do they attempt to explain the original game's story, to contextualise the ending of 'Remake' for people who haven't played it.

 

[Maf]

Square has made a simply incredible statue from Final Fantasy 6

 

pic

Video

 

Price

Quote

Today, Square Enix has announced that preorders will open tomorrow and will set you back a whopping 1,485,000 yen, or around USD $11,500

today’s rate that’s just short of £9000 😮

 

Maybe I just buy the game on Steam instead