OCH Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, one-armed dwarf said: I'll say again also, I really hope these new machines embrace cross play and a more agnostic party chat system. We seem to be heading that way a little bit anyway I hadn't even thought about that side of it. How online integrated are consoles now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maf Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 @DANGERMAN Going off what you highlighted, if you have all platforms then there isn’t really much of a + side to it. But presumably someone who has every console is a fan of each and wants to see the actual exclusives and have everything available to them. In this case I guess there’s not a lot to gain from a being a supporter of a specific platform because you own all of them. It really is just for the person who already owns that console only, or for the business trying to get people to buy their console. If you already own all of them, though, then you don’t get a lot out of it. Not that I think timed exclusives are that make or break regardless but I still like seeing companies go after them. It just makes me like that console more that they want to make the system I bought as worthwhile as it can be. Not as much as real exclusives but still somewhat. I also think saying being “made to wait” is entitlement. Or something similar. Yes they are being made to wait, but what they’re being made to wait for is that platform’s correct release date. It’s not being hard done by, that person was never told they were going to get it earlier in the first place. That’s just assuming oh I should have this now when, sorry, no you shouldn’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-armed dwarf Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Tbh I feel like your take on this is very similar to the way you see metascores as like seeing your football team get a good result. Not trying to bash you or anything or call you fanboy, but it's not something I can really connect to. I kinda don't care about these boxes beyond the things they can do, but I suppose when you're familiar with PC it makes you look at them in very generic terms like that. They aren't black boxes anymore if that makes sense. When I got a PS4 Pro I sort of saw it as like putting a r9 380 in a base ps4 (which I think was the equivalent PC architecture to the Pro GPU at the time) Like I wouldn't expect or feel entitled to see TLOU2 on a PC but I understand the reasons why that will never happen, even tho a PC version of that game would probably blow people's fucking minds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maf Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 9 minutes ago, one-armed dwarf said: I kinda don't care about these boxes beyond the things they can do, See I don’t really care about these boxes beyond the things they can play. That’s why exclusive content, even timed, I think is good because it makes me happier with the console I dropped a lot of money on. Not to side track but as much as I like the Xbox One X the biggest disappointment to me is in it’s final years Xbox gave up and it really only plays the same games PS4 does but a bit better (With rare exception like Gears 5, etc). It’s like why do I own this, then? I mean I love Xbox but it is disappointing. And I’m totally a fanboy. I have no problem with that. But I’m not specific fanboy I’m just a fan of video games total. And I like it when different consoles do their best to impress and promote competition. Which I see timed exclusives as. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DANGERMAN Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Maf said: @DANGERMAN Going off what you highlighted, if you have all platforms then there isn’t really much of a + side to it. But presumably someone who has every console is a fan of each and wants to see the actual exclusives and have everything available to them. In this case I guess there’s not a lot to gain from a being a supporter of a specific platform because you own all of them. It really is just for the person who already owns that console only, or for the business trying to get people to buy their console. If you already own all of them, though, then you don’t get a lot out of it. Not that I think timed exclusives are that make or break regardless but I still like seeing companies go after them. It just makes me like that console more that they want to make the system I bought as worthwhile as it can be. Not as much as real exclusives but still somewhat. I also think saying being “made to wait” is entitlement. Or something similar. Yes they are being made to wait, but what they’re being made to wait for is that platform’s correct release date. It’s not being hard done by, that person was never told they were going to get it earlier in the first place. That’s just assuming oh I should have this now when, sorry, no you shouldn’t. Again though Maf, how is getting something when I'd have got it without it being a timed exclusive good for me? Apart from actual fanboys no one is totalling up the number of exclusives, and a timed exclusive isn't even that. I honestly can't understand your argument Nier for example, I have a ps4 I don't have an Xbox. How does it being delayed on Xbox benefit me? I agree with @Nagon the last paragraph. Entitlement would be complaining because the game is delayed. The game isn't being delayed, its a timed exclusive. The audience for one console is worth less than the money paid by the other company. There's any number of reasons people wouldn't like that 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCH Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 As a Dev of a timed exclusive, you're making a statement. Not based on the merits of one system over another, just who has deeper pockets. There isn't really a more positive way to look at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maf Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 22 minutes ago, DANGERMAN said: Again though Maf, how is getting something when I'd have got it without it being a timed exclusive good for me? Apart from actual fanboys no one is totalling up the number of exclusives, and a timed exclusive isn't even that. I honestly can't understand your argument Nier for example, I have a ps4 I don't have an Xbox. How does it being delayed on Xbox benefit me? I agree with @Nagon the last paragraph. Entitlement would be complaining because the game is delayed. The game isn't being delayed, its a timed exclusive. The audience for one console is worth less than the money paid by the other company. There's any number of reasons people wouldn't like that Nier doesn’t benefit you because Xbox got it later. It just benefited you because you’re a PS4 owner. If you didn’t have a PS4, you might not of been able to play it, but you are so you did. You benefitted from owning that system. We can assume that if that didn’t happen it would of come out everywhere, but we could also assume it would of only come out on Xbox, or PC first, or whatever. Maybe the publisher was shopping it around. We don’t know anything. All we know is it came out on PS4 first, and if you have a PS4, you benefit from being able to play it. Also I don’t think you need to be a fanboy to see the value (Despite a lot lesser value) in a timed exclusive. Categorically one machine can play something the other at the time could not, so it makes the machine more valuable because it has a bigger, higher quality, library (Assuming the game is quality). Obviously this isn’t permanent so the value in it is not at high, but you said yourself games have come later to other consoles and you didn’t pick them up, so it clearly does it’s job on some level. As far as people not liking the decision, it’s not their decision to make. Fans can be butt hurt plenty, it doesn’t always mean they’re right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-armed dwarf Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Nier Automata is Schrodinger's exclusive @DANGERMAN ? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DANGERMAN Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 @Maf this is up there with the worst arguments for something I've ever heard. You're saying I'd benefit because I owned the console it happened to be on, but if it had come to Xbox at the same time I still would have got it. Ergo that the Xbox owners had to wait isn't a benefit to me, the only other alternative is that it would have come out at the same time for them, Your 2nd paragraph is just bizarre. Is anyone, realistically, looking at their current console and constantly gauging the value of it? The argument for that would be it's more appealing to potential customers, and so the manufacturer, but not to anyone who already has the machine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maryokutai Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 3 hours ago, DisturbedSwan said: You’re joking right? He said he hates timed exclusives then gets tmed exclusivity for Yakuza 7 on Xbox SX, that’s the contradiction right there my man. The game has literally been out for five months on PS4 already, I have no idea in what parallel dimension you could call that a timed exclusive for Xbox. Microsoft seems to have some kind of marketing deal for the english release but it's still going to come out simultaneously on every platform over here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maf Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 1 hour ago, DANGERMAN said: @Maf this is up there with the worst arguments for something I've ever heard. You're saying I'd benefit because I owned the console it happened to be on, but if it had come to Xbox at the same time I still would have got it. Ergo that the Xbox owners had to wait isn't a benefit to me, the only other alternative is that it would have come out at the same time for them, Your 2nd paragraph is just bizarre. Is anyone, realistically, looking at their current console and constantly gauging the value of it? The argument for that would be it's more appealing to potential customers, and so the manufacturer, but not to anyone who already has the machine. As for point 1, it just seems like a negative perspective. It’s just “it’s not a benefit to me because Xbox owners had to wait“. It isn’t, that’s true. It’s a benefit because the system you own got a game you can’t play anywhere else (Assuming variables like you want to play it, and it’s good, etc). If it came out everywhere you would still to get to play it, true. But it didn’t. And I don’t think “But it would of done” is a strong argument because that’s an unknown. It isn’t the only other alternative at all, it’s just a potential one. All we know is Sony splashed out for a game to bolster their system, or because they have good relationships with the publisher, or whatever. And granted we’re talking about timed exclusives so long term it’s not the biggest thing in the world, but my point is how big of a benefit it is aside, it’s still a cool addition if you’re a Playstation owner. If you’re an Xbox owner you get no benefit. But you’re not supposed to Playstation paid for it. But they also weren’t robbed/punished/lost something that was never theirs to begin with. They can play it if they buy a PS4 or wait for the Xbox version. Both instances are fair to them. But as a PS4 owner you got the chance to play something cool. I mean to me it’s so simple. It’s not a negative for Xbox, it’s just a bonus for Playstation in this Nier example. And for point 2 I totally feel that way. The Switch is the most disappointing Nintendo console I’ve ever owned and the most disappointing console out of the 3 because it has no strengths to it at all. Yeah BOTW is my favourite game this gen, but I also played it on Wii U. And everything I love about Nintendo has mostly been a let down on Switch. Even now they finally got 3rd party support nearly all of the exclusive 3rd party games have been middling or bad. So yeah I look at the Switch and go man this machine has floundered because it does not have enough quality first party or exclusive games. I know it’s a huge success sales wise but in terms of quality to me it really isn’t successful at all. I look at consoles like that. I appreciate this got it’s own thread but I really don’t know how to put my side across any more. I think timed exclusives are meant to be competitive, I think competition in business is good, some times people lose out on it, that’s a shame but that’s the nature of it, but if you’re invested or a fan of a console, especially if you only own 1 console, then you get something good out of it. I hear everyone else’s position loud and clear, but I just don’t agree with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-armed dwarf Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 See I really think FFVII is just a great example of why there is no benefit. The game badly needs better texture streaming. I'm not sitting here looking at low res sector 7 going 'man, glad I'm playing this on PS4'. I'm wondering why Cloud lives under a low res jpeg I know not everybody had that problem with the game but it was my single greatest disappointment with it. If this exclusivity deal did not exist a much better looking version would be accessible. It just feels stymied by this particular deal in a way I can't quite remember for any other exclusive title. It feels like it's not supposed to be on the system, that's what I felt when playing it. Call that an extreme view or whatever but it's why I think this about timed exclusives right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DANGERMAN Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 @Maf I think we can safely assume Tomb Raider and COD dlc would have come out on the other platforms without the timed exclusive, the very fact it's a timed exclusive and not an exclusive is proof of that, but also because it's Tomb Raider and COD, they're coming out on both Playstation and Xbox You're the one saying timed exclusives are a good thing. As far as I can tell the only reason you're giving is that it makes you feel good knowing you've got something and others haven't? Everyone else is saying they don't think that way. That's you being the negative one, not us Point 2 you're looking at the console as a whole, not each timed exclusive. I want games like Nier and Yakuza, I wouldn't value those games less if they were on Xbox at the same time, it's irrelevant to me, I've not got an xbox but I do have a PS4. (I don't rate the Switch that highly either fwiw) edit: I hadn't even read the bit about how Xbox owners should just buy another console if they haven't got the game they want. And you're calling other people entitled? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DisturbedSwan Posted June 17, 2020 Author Share Posted June 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Maryokutai said: The game has literally been out for five months on PS4 already, I have no idea in what parallel dimension you could call that a timed exclusive for Xbox. Microsoft seems to have some kind of marketing deal for the english release but it's still going to come out simultaneously on every platform over here. In Japan yeah. It’s not coming out simultaneously on PS5 though when it’s releasing Day 1 on XSX in the West so it’s obviously a Next-Gen Timed Exclusive for them ?♀️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maf Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 I mean DLC exclusivity probably means something otherwise publishers wouldn’t keep doing it, but I personally don’t care about exclusive DLC, it’s never been a big deal for me having to wait a month for a map or whatever so I don’t feel strongly about that either way. Tomb Raider I think was a good get for Xbox. It didn’t really help them any, I don’t think, because Xbox has just been too unpopular this generation for anything to help but I appreciate the effort. It doesn’t make me feel good someone else hasn’t got something it just makes me a bigger fan of a console if they put in extra effort to give me the best experiences they can. Obviously real exclusives are where it’s at. But timed is a decent, not brilliant or anything, but a decent putting their money where their mouth is. This is the best place to play, here’s why. I know I’m the only one saying this. It just seems people seem to focus on the negative on the idea. Everyone is treating it like a zero sum game is a bad thing. One it’s not really because it’s timed and two hey if you’re on the winning side you benefit. Positive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HandsomeDead Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Oof, this was a read. My opening statement on this is timed exclusives are making money out of nothing. That's all they do, there is just no benefit to the players. Its as bad as a business practice as on-disc DLC and all that kind of stuff. As already said, some games are timed exclusives because they don't have the resources to put it on every SKU and that's fine. It is what it is. But the ones where its mostly just a cynical payment to keep it off other systems for a period of time is just a downer. The reason they do it (or one of them) is to take advantage of fans. Hoping that, say, a fan of Tomb Raider will be too excited to wait a year and drop the cash for another console and end up in their ecosystem. And a 'fuck you' to those that can't do that. It's the easiest way to do it without having to fully invest in their own internal studios, so you could also say it affects that kind of output too. And for what? just bumming out your competitors, and fans of gaming on that side? What kind of fan of gaming finds that acceptable? It sucks. There is no good argument for it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maf Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Why is it everyone focuses on “It’s too keep it off the other system” not “Because I want it on ours”. Yes one means the other but the way you look at it is cynical. I think it’s a short term strategy to make your console more sellable. And I think there’s no inherent problem with that. It’s the same deal as real exclusives just cheaper and easier for the platform holder to do and obviously not permanent. I don’t really know how much traction it gets Sony/Xbox or whatever for doing it but I’m ok that they do. If anything I just wish they weren’t timed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-armed dwarf Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 The thing is I don't care that my console is more saleable. That is not a tangible benefit to me at all. It just seems like such an abstract way of looking at this. Your logic is very strange to me, even when you explain it I find it impossible to figure out how you see this as an upside for your system unless you trick yourself into thinking it. That's how all this reads to me. That's not me trying to be cynical or anything, I just literally can't understand this argument you're making 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HandsomeDead Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Because I don't care if its just on mine for no reason other than to benefit corporate types. I'm happy (or even happier) if those on other systems can play along with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DANGERMAN Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, Maf said: Why is it everyone focuses on “It’s too keep it off the other system” not “Because I want it on ours”. because they haven't got the game out early, the game is finished when it's finished (let's pretend that's still true) and released. If the deal wasn't in place everyone would have access to it, because it is some dont. The timed exclusives aren't really exclusives, it's the timed bit that's important I should apologise to you too. I was getting frustrated and it was affecting my tone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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