Final Fantasy General Chat

[one-armed dwarf]

The pixel remaster looks cool but that font is terrible. 

 

I think I heard they patched it, but wonder what they were thinking in the first place

[Metroid66]

Watched a short YouTube documentary on the thoughts Squeenix have given over the years to an FF6 remake. 

 

Having played a bit of the game myself it's obvious that a full blooded FF7 remake style affair is far beyond what any sensible studio would attempt. With this many characters and environments in the first 10 hours, and with rebirth not doing so well, it could only end in financial calamity.

 

However it seemed the guys at Squeenix where more than comfortable to contemplate revisiting the game in a more reasonable Octopath/Bravely default manner.

 

Having recently played the non RPG FF7 remake, and begun my first playthru of FF6, I'd say that would be the way to go as far as I'm concerned. And I wish they'd done it with 7.

[one-armed dwarf]

I think the mis-step with FFVII is they tried to imagine doing their own type of MCU thing with it. The way each game 'sets up' a later installment, like a sort of building block and it gets you engaged in the hype cycle for the next release. But the two games that are out don't really have beginnings, middle and endings. They are each the beginning and middle and are paced and structured in a very strange way that seems to give no thought into how it feels to move through them. There's no sense of momentum or energy to it, which for all their faults aren't a problem shared with MCU films. The new plot twists in the endings seem to be part of a way around that, leading to speculation and theory crafting. But I don't think it's hit in a way that's really captured the zeitgeist like Square might have hoped. At least not beyond the comments section of a Maximillian Dood video anyway

 

That said I prefer even that to a remake which feels very 're-iterative'. I prefer an ambitious failure to a very familiar yet safe attempt because the latter is something I've already played anyway. Though I generally don't like how the Octopath stuff looks anyway, with the blurry DOF effect. 

 

Maybe what they should really look at is something more of a genre transplant. Like what if FFVI was a character action game or something. Some form of middle ground. Look at how Granblue's new RPG is designed, with multiple playable characters. It's possible, with some compromise

[Metroid66]

Or a more cartoony effort in the style of latter day DQ games - with all the big effects, modern battle system but a fraction of the budget.

[one-armed dwarf]

Kind of, but I was mainly thinking of ways they could compartmentalise the scope a bit (ie, mission based structure). They already have a character action game framework in FFXVI, and it's something that they could iterate on maybe. Albeit XVI is visually in a whole other league

[Maryokutai]

I wonder if the 2D-HD approach really is that 'easy' by comparison considering they announced a DQ3 remake in that vein three years ago. So by the time that comes out it will have been in development longer than FFVII Rebirth (though in fairness it will be the complete game).

 

There's this rumoured FFIX remake in the works also. Will be interesting to see how that turns out if it's indeed a real thing because that would be more close to the original and indeed a Bravely-ish affair.

 

In a world with unlimited manpower a FFVI remake could be a cool genre mix I think. Just throw stuff in there. When I played the part with Locke I thought that would have made for a cool Tenchu-style stealth section for example. But nobody is gong to build something like that for a 15-minute segment today.

[OCH]

3 hours ago, one-armed dwarf said:

Like what if FFVI was a character action game or something.

🤮It works perfectly fine as a turn-based JRPG. No need to bastardise it.

 

It's very simple what they should have done with FF6. What they did with FF3 & 4 on the DS.

 

It doesn't have to be ultra realistic 4K nonsense. Just an upgrade from 2D SNES sprites.

[one-armed dwarf]

No, it doesn't have to be 4k realistic anything. tbh I don't want to get into the to and fro about it, my point is more I find cosmetic remakes like that FFIV one very uninteresting and redundant. But something transformative, which makes a new game out of something old or gives it a very different spin, I'm more into that. Especially as I have zero trouble going back to play the original anyway, and it can offer a lot more flexibility. That's the main point I was trying to make

 

You're not going to change my mind on that anyway so I'll just leave it at that.

[Metroid66]

9 minutes ago, one-armed dwarf said:

Especially as I have zero trouble going back to play the original anyway,

 

Talk is cheap😀

 

16 minutes ago, OCH said:

🤮

😂

[one-armed dwarf]

I mean, I've played it before. Being real about it?

 

Spoiler

I don't think it's actually that good. It's got a great final boss sequence and a cool late game thing. Opera sequence is an important story telling moment in how it weaves gameplay within cinematics, so it's got historical curiosity value to seeing all that stuff. But other than that, meh. Remaking that, as is? Same design and mechanics but improved over SNES graphics?

 

 

 

 

Chrono Trigger is the 16bit Square effort for me. A timeless classic. Citizen Kane of gaming? No it's The Third Man of gaming, a game which never feels old and always remains impressive

 

 

[HandsomeDead]

I just want a FF game to do 2D pre-renders again.  I don't really want any remakes I just want a new FF that looks like this:

 

 

Reject modernity, embrace tradition.

[OCH]

1 hour ago, HandsomeDead said:

Reject modernity, embrace tradition.

Exactly this. Square has no idea what to do with FF at the moment. So it's a "throw everything at the wall and see what sticks" approach. Which is why each has been so radically different and success has in turn varied wildly. Both Persona and Dragon Quest are examples of long running series that show you don't have to reinvent the wheel to innovate. You just have to stick with what you know works.

 

Not something creatively bankrupt, vapid and superficial. Like the current remakes. Trading in on brand names to give merit to fanfic. Being from a creative background. I take a dim view on people trying to put their own stamp, or "new take" on someone else's earned success and passing it off as their own work. 

 

REmake 1 and FF4 DS showed the ideal for this era of nostalgia milking. The same game. Reinvented and refined from the ground up. The additions that were made IE Lisa Trevor, maintained the tone and aesthetic of the game itself. No "Poochies" or some such OC's that only detract from the original elements of the game. 

[HandsomeDead]

I was just being cheeky and unserious with that line 😅 

 

I'm not really interested in shitting on the FF7 remakes.  There's decisions and additions I don't like but others I do.  Overall it is a more interesting project than a faithful remake imho.  And Kitase and Nomura are leads on the remake so it's not new people adding OCs, most of the creative leads from the OG are still here.

 

And Persona is a bad example of keeping things the same is good especially since the amount of huffing and puffing there is amongst the old heads regarding Persona 3 and what it added.

 

But I dunno I just want an RPG with 2D pre-renders because I think they give a game really memorable environments and allow for a certain attention to detail.  And with all this cozy indie games thing that's going on I don't think coziness will truly be achieved until we bring back 2D pre-renders.  Maybe it's harder to do now than 3D with 4K displays.  I dunno if it would turn around the series or anything, I doubt it would, but I'd like it.  I just want them to do it once.  They can go back to what they were doing after that.

[OCH]

I didn't mention new people adding OC's. I mentioned OC's being added that were clearly not in the same game as the original characters. Conceptually or otherwise.

 

I bring up Persona, because Square have gone on record as saying turn-based doesn't work anymore. But the critical and commercial success of Persona (and Dragon Quest) clearly states otherwise.

 

Food for thought:

As for what is interesting and what isn't. For those that have played it (and possibly the original, too) is REmake 1 boring? Uninteresting? Redundant?

[one-armed dwarf]

I don't like this whole remake 'purism' type arguments. Feels really pushy. Lisa Trevor is literally an 'OC' that completely changes the canon of the game. What are we doing here? lol

 

This stuff is way too dogmatic when it's framed this way. All approaches have their own pros and cons, faithful remakes or not. It doesn't have to be this hill to die on all the time

 

I like the idea of doing an old style 32 bit game. It's something they could possibly do, Maf posted a video somewhere with a game that had that very stylised isometric look but was 3d

[Maryokutai]

While I think SE's comments on turn-based combat are a bit of an easy cop-out, Persona, while successful, doesn't even remotely sell enough copies to make a project the size of your average mainline FF break even I think. Quick google says P5 and P5 Royal combined on all platforms since 2017 sold 7 million units. That's not the ceiling SE is looking at for FF.

 

But on the other hand that's also more of a commentary about the usual triple-A woes of today and less about what FF is doing. Maybe the series doesn't need to be that big. Maybe Persona-size budgets would be enough. Maybe even Octopath would be enough. I'd certainly be okay with it, but it's probably a case of pride to have it stay at flagship status even if the IP and its lack of coherent gameplay systems across entries don't have the same pull they used to.

 

As for pre-rendered (or in this case, pre-built) backdrops, I'm regularly praying to the Espers that Fantasian will at some point be freed from the Apple Arcade prison.

[OCH]

1 hour ago, one-armed dwarf said:

Lisa Trevor is literally an 'OC' that completely changes the canon of the game.

How?🤔 She affects none of the main characters. Nor the overarching plot. Just another weird monster in the Spencer Mansion. One that doesn't leave the Spencer Mansion. Like Yawn or the giant moth.

[Maf]

2 hours ago, Maryokutai said:

As for pre-rendered (or in this case, pre-built) backdrops, I'm regularly praying to the Espers that Fantasian will at some point be freed from the Apple Arcade prison.

 

If people are looking for classic JRPG stuff then don't wait for Fantasaian. It's neat, but exceptionally 6/10. 

 

Play Octopath 2, Chained Echoes or that Suidoken game that's coming out next week 

[OCH]

On 20/04/2024 at 20:55, Maf said:

that Suidoken game that's coming out next week 

 

@MafI've looked into this since. I got end of July as the release date. That's what I preordered anyway.

[radiofloyd]

I don’t believe in prescribing the “type” of games that should be made. A good game is a good game.

And using Dragon Quest as an example? DQXI was so stale. It was probably the stalest game I’ve played in a long time. Talk about a series that does need an injection of something new.

 

Haven’t played Rebirth but I absolutely loved FF7 Remake, to me it hit the perfect sweet spot between new and old.