Death Stranding

[DANGERMAN]

To play Blakey advocate. You're supposed to manage you load (giggle) and your balance, that gif looks like someone recklessly moving to make Reedus fall over. 

 

Not that that makes the game good or bad, but it isn't showing it in its best light 

[one-armed dwarf]

So Blakey won't want to watch this, but Giantbomb have uploaded their 'early' and 'late game' impressions of Death Stranding. So it's probably pretty spoilery and I definitely don't want to watch it yet, but knowing how hot Dan was on Kojima before this game and how things have... uh transpired it might be fun to watch later on.

 

A lot of DS content just came out all at once on my subs actually at the exact same time the past 30 minutes, seems another part of the embargo lifted or something. So maybe EZA or some other stuff will pop up as well.

 

(Look at how excited he was ?)

[Maf]

They’ve also put up their QL. I don’t know. Usually it takes me seconds to tell if I want to play a game or not but I really can’t tell at all with this.

[Maf]

I’ve started watching the first hour of the game and I think the big difference in story telling between this and MGS is MGS starts off fairly normal, and gets weirder as you go. Like if you think about MGS1 what you are told off the bat is that terrorists have 2 VIP’s hostage and they have nuclear capability. Then it hits you with a bunch of military talk, some real, some fake, but even as a kid I didn’t understand all the acronyms or specific context it all still kind of fits and gets you in to the “real world” military, political, war-like aspect. And then starts to hit you with really wild shit like cyborg ninjas and stuff. Point being that even if you don’t know what it all means exactly, you kind of get it anyway because all the extraneous cool sounding lingo is just flavour for the core idea which is easily understandable. 
 

This game doesn’t do any of that and feels like it’s just trying to bamboozle me with just really weird stuff and expects me to be interested in it just because I don’t know what it is. But for one it doesn’t work like that, you can have your world and it’s flavour, but you got to lay down a hook to reel me into it just not plop me there in time falls and deliveries and not explain why any of it matters. Also I’m over 30. I like comfort. If you hit me with a bunch of stuff and I don’t know and you don’t try to explain then my mind will just bin it and tell you to suck it. Which is what watching this game is making me want to do. I won’t care because you want me too I will only care if you give me a reason too. 
 

Man, this game. I’m so on the fence because I still just want to play it for reasons I can’t explain. But the more I see it’s like man what a teenage pretentious wank fest.

[one-armed dwarf]

Jeff made the same point on the Bombcast. That MGS didn't start off weird, it waited until players had built an understanding of the world and characters first. At the start it was just a sort of military stealth game with graphic novel influences and entry level philosophy. Then the player ends up discovering layers of weird conspiracies and killer viruses and clones and stuff, which eventually isn't even that weird considering where things go later. Even MGS2 didn't really get weird until the final hour, when you learned that everything you did was pointless and misdirection. Which had a big impact cause of how it was earned.

 

Even with the trailers. MGSV debuted with a trailer for a fucking horror game (the original 'Phantom Pain' trailer). It gets to do that cause it was Metal Gear. It has the cachet, it has a captive audience that are made to expect a certain thing but will also allow for the weird misdirection shit that Kojima does cause he spent years doing it with MGS2. It's all very showy and dumb and pretentious but it's also very well earned, it had a 25 year legacy by that point after all.

 

For Death Stranding trailers, it started with the weird stuff from day one. You already have the dial at 11 so there's way less to build up to. Potentially, I'm only going off the trailers here. But the trailers are far beyond the weirdness in MGS already so if something crazy happens in the game will it even be impressive? I'm already anticipating the weirdest bullshit cause they have shown a lot of stuff that's extremely weird

 

 

Again I want to be pretty fucking clear again that I'm not trying to dunk on the game and I'm not just trying to project a cynical opinion belonged to someone else. Like I am very interested in Death Stranding, it's why I keep posting in this topic. But I just wonder if here the auteur has become the star of the show and not the characters and world of the game itself. This is one of the most interesting things for me tbh, in terms of the reason why this game is what it is. I can't think of any game like this before this. It's like Marvel giving a Marvel budget to Terrence Mallick or David Lynch to do whatever. Actually I think the budget here might be lower than what it looks like, but it's a good enough analogy imo for what this thing looks to be.

 

I think for me though what I am more interested in for Death Stranding is what these systems will be like. It looks like RDR2 and BotW had a BB. Lots of focus on traversal, like BOTW, and a design that seems to be more about the journey than the destination. But very slow and deliberate and probably very boring on a moment to moment basis, as RDR2 could be.

[DisturbedSwan]

I do find it genuinely hilarious how all this negativity in this thread pretty much comes from the 3(?) dudes at GB and the one at Edge. All other views get ignored. 
 

If they’re not negative, don’t post people! It doesn’t matter people liked this game, your favourite outlet didn’t like it and that’s all that matters ?

[one-armed dwarf]

Blakey, a lot of my impressions are also built from the very positive reviews over at Kotaku and Waypoint, which basically talk about the same things as Giantbomb but they have a different reaction. It's not negativity, it's interpreting what's been put forward so far.

 

But there's no point having this argument again because it's really really boring and you seem unwilling to understand it.

[Hendo]

I’ll repeat what I said earlier in the thread - the whole situation with this game is fascinating. To ignore a positive or negative opinion is odd. 
 

[Maf]

I find it genuinely hilarious @Blakey can’t understand that this is a real opinion, not some outlet influenced parrot talk. I’m just watching the game and keep coming back to it looks bad. Sorry if I don’t stick my fingers in my ears and only think of sunshine and rainbows. 
 

But I’m still watching it and giving it a chance to convince me, unlike some who just fully admit they don’t watch GB content but then blame any negative reactions because other people do watch it. You don’t even know what you’re talking about if you don’t watch their video. They literally just start the game for the first time and have lots of enthusiasm and fun with it. It’s me watching it going, I think they’re trying to hard to like it. 

[one-armed dwarf]

I've decided that the first thing I'm going to do in this game is never ever have a wee. You know, just to test the integrity of that system. And sam's bladder.

 

Might do a no-poo run after that.

[Hendo]

Like @Maf I’ve watched the first hour of the game.

As far as the GB people critically evaluating it in that hour, they don’t.

They spend the entire time going, “what’s going on?!”.

All of them, most of all Dan, are very excited to play the rest and see what the game is. 
 

Then it cuts to them after at least one of them has finished it, and all are either not impressed or (in the case of Kojima super fan, Dan) actively hating it.

 

Now, there might well be people with similar videos who are absolutely loving the game, but the outlet I trust the most and the opinions I listen to (but not necessarily agree with all the time) is the one I will watch the videos from the most.

 

What puts me off the game and makes me not want to jump in day one, is the description of what the game actually is. I’ve got tons of games I’ve bought and have barely played, I’m simply not going to waste my time and money on a game that looks dull when I have so many more things to play and a severely limited time to do so.

[DisturbedSwan]

1 hour ago, Maf said:

I find it genuinely hilarious @Blakey can’t understand that this is a real opinion, not some outlet influenced parrot talk. I’m just watching the game and keep coming back to it looks bad. Sorry if I don’t stick my fingers in my ears and only think of sunshine and rainbows. 
 

But I’m still watching it and giving it a chance to convince me, unlike some who just fully admit they don’t watch GB content but then blame any negative reactions because other people do watch it. You don’t even know what you’re talking about if you don’t watch their video. They literally just start the game for the first time and have lots of enthusiasm and fun with it. It’s me watching it going, I think they’re trying to hard to like it. 

 

Nah, you've got me wrong. I know that actively disliking/being sceptical about the game is a real opinion and people are entitled to not like the look of it from gameplay footage they've seen. However, people are - at this stage - basing those opinions off of watching the game being played or others' opinions, which creates 2nd hand opinions. No one can have a proper full opinion on a game until they've sat down with a controller in their hands and played it themselves, that's when and only when I will personally completely respect someones view. If we disagree on a game but we have both played it at length that's absolutely fine but rampant negativity does nobody any good and ends up tanking threads like this one.

 

I'm not sticking my fingers in my ears and only looking at the positives but there are an awful lot of positives out there. I could accuse you and @one-armed dwarf of doing exactly the opposite, sticking your fingers in your ears and only thinking of storm clouds and dead kittens. 

 

Good, I'm glad. Also, I'm not blaming all negative reactions on Giant Bomb, I'm aware they're a huge outlet out there and a lot of folks hold them in high regard, all I'm saying is that they're, ultimately, one outlet and perhaps people are focusing on them a little too much when the overwhelming impressions are incredibly positive. Maybe folks should watch other outlets videos, read other impressions and reviews to try to form a full picture in their head (I'm aware Kyle said he's done this) rather than focusing on just their favourite outlet. I love EZA but I don't just watch their video review, take their opinion as gospel then ignore all other outlets. 

[one-armed dwarf]

Blakey the negative coverage this game has been getting on some sites has nothing to do with it. It's the game itself and how it's been shown.

 

Like just ignore all the different value judgements on Death Stranding for a moment and think about what this game is. What it's been shown as. A slow, ponderous, sim-and-systems heavy game about making deliveries where you only really feel the payoff of your labour after a very significant investment of your time.

 

Consider also the reasons why people may play games. Escapism. Distraction. To not think about work and projects and deadlines and making ends meet.

 

Have you ever had a job where you're on call all the time. Or underappreciated? Underpaid? Ever had a work related stress illness? Maybe you have. I have. It fucking sucks. I bet others have too.

 

Do you see why people could have a hard time getting on with a game that blurs the distinction between labour and play in such a deliberate way as Death Stranding appears to do? 

 

You don't need Dan or Jeff to point this out. Here is the first review I read, maybe the most positive DS review out there, and here is a quote from it.

https://kotaku.com/death-stranding-the-kotaku-review-1839474313

 

Quote

Every inch of Death Stranding teems with meaning or implication. Even the stupidest and most pretentious developments build to create a multi-layered game, one with numerous potential points of attack to analyze. It is a story about fatherhood. It is a broad dig at the gig economy. It is deeply concerned with upcoming environmental disaster and American politics, old and new.

 

All of this is work. Death Stranding is a long and grueling game, but that grind and sweat is fundamentally important to its identity. After the initial plot is set up, the next 40 to 50 hours are devoted to quiet hikes and desperate forays with only a few plot punctuations. In Death Stranding, labor is key, and offering any convenience to the player outside of a few weapons and gadgets would rub against the game’s themes. If players are meant to value connections, they need to be alone for hours.

 

Everyone on here is clever enough to know what works for them and what doesn't. When I think about my relationship to my labour I think about how much I hate it and how little appreciated I feel. I use some of my wages to distract from feelings like this and one way of doing that is with games.

 

So a game all about doing boring work? Well that's a really hard fucking ask. But I am a stupid fucking idiot so I need to know what this is anyway. Also, cause believe it or not I'm a Kojima fanboy even though I'm not convinced by this thing so far.

 

This is how I think most people will have formed their take on Death Stranding. Seeing quotes like 'labour is key' and going 'eh...'.

 

 

Like this isn't rampant negativity. It is a game that's designed to give people these kinds of feelings. A game about being lonely... how can there not be any 'negative' comments about this?

[Maf]

@Blakey is right to a point about getting your hands on it and actually playing it for yourself. That is why I’ve just finished watching Eurogamer’s stream of it, because I really want to have a good reason to justify buying and trying it. I also know that I change my mind a lot about a game. How many times have I said this looks bad and ended up liking it, and vice versa. Even while playing games I ping pong back and forth between positive and negative constantly from beginning to end. I’m so up for my mind being changed and my opinion to evolve, and am obviously fully aware of how big a difference seeing and playing a game can change or help that. 
 

But this game looks fucking stupid. And that doesn’t have anything to do with an outlet, that is my opinion. That is watching this game being played by different people in different ways with different levels of judgement and bias and for myself I’m looking at it, knowing what I like, and feeling this game isn’t it. 
 

But I can’t help but be intrigued by it because it’s the game of the moment and Kojima has made some of my favourite games of all time and being a fan of his I’m still trying to look past a lot of what I don’t like in what I’m seeing for something I do like. But it’s proving to be extremely difficult this time around. And it honestly has shit to do with GB’s coverage, other than that’s where I choose to get good unedited video of games to see what the real experience looks like. 

[one-armed dwarf]

I watched that stream too. I asked them what happens if I don't wee and they said nothing. Quite disappointing.

[Maf]

You don’t get the trophy for going for a wee if you don’t 

[DANGERMAN]

Regarding people watching more streams of this. I can't speak for everyone here but I'm not looking to do a peer review. There's a handful of gaming channels I watch, I watch them to see the games, I watch them to be entertained, whatever the reason its very rare I watch extra videos about a game, certainly at release. There's only so much time in a day. 

 

I think someone else said it, and I'm aware non of these posts are aimed at me, but I watch a lot of Giant Bomb, I don't think they reflect my taste in games at all. I don't think I regard any of them as especially good critics, certainly once Patrick and Austin left. 

[one-armed dwarf]

I watched the opening on giantbomb and it's pretty cool tbh

 

No gameplay though. Least now I can skip the cutscene and start the game straightaway when it unlocks

[Hendo]

A lot of the first hour cut scenes are lifted straight from previous trailers.

[one-armed dwarf]

Dusk Golem, the Resident Evil leaker guy, says that Death Stranding didn't do so well

 

https://www.resetera.com/threads/rumor-sony-rebooting-silent-hill-series.174815/page-8

 

Quote

I can actually talk about this a bit. Now keep in my I'm a bit murky on the details, this is from my understanding also, I'm going to try to get what I've heard as accurate as possible but I'm also cutting parts of this out. I'm also about to say some controversial things for some, so be ready. None of this is from any source I personally can verify, but it is what I've heard.

Death Stranding was a flop. It sold well initially, but I've heard it has over 3 million unsold copies of what's been produced, but the sales kinda' slowed to a crawl and the game hasn't done as well as anyone involved has been hoping. Death Stranding was also originally supposed to be a very different game, a lot darker and more horror-esque, but around a year and a half before launch the development got soft rebooted. Sony and Kojima had some disagreements, and some other studios at Sony's Worldwide Studios were a bit upset at the money Kojima was getting for the game, along with disagreements lead to Death Stranding not ending up as a PS5 game and a sharper window for release even after the soft reboot. There's a looooot more here, but this is the part I'll share that's relevant.

So originally Sony and Konami came to a deal when Konami was shopping around for Silent Hill developers, I am not entirely clear on the details but Toyama had been interested in doing a horror game, but the Siren IP is kinda' more of a niche thing and would get a lower budget. Somehow, I wish I was more clear on the details, but SOMEHOW a few variables fells into place that Sony went out of their way to work with Konami to allow Toyama to work on a horror game, but a horror game with more recognition behind it than Siren, which of course I mean Silent Hill. Sony also seemed to have the idea since Death Stranding was a loss for them that getting Kojima to finally work on a horror game like he's been wanting to, have Konami help fit the bill for Kojima's and Toyama's game (as Konami was going to help fund whatever game anyways). There was some Japanese pride on Kojima Pro's side since Death Stranding didn't do too great, so they want to prove themselves more. Sony is fine with that but not to make a game without as bloated of a budget as DS, and they believe that a horror game or even a Silent Hill game as a brand with recognition and already pre-built hype with his named attached might make more financial return for them and be a strong title for their platform. Kojima making a horror game and making Silent Hills has hype behind it, Toyama and Team Silent members returning to make a new Silent Hill game has hype behind it, and Sony and Konami were able to strike a deal that made both parties happy and mutually benefited both of them.

This is a super oversimplification, but basically Konami just wanted someone to make a good Silent Hill game and was willing to fund the pitch they selected, Sony was interested due to what Toyama wanted for his next project and the possibility of getting Kojima to do a smaller budget game after Death Stranding was a failure which they believe would have interest for gamers, and a deal was worked out with Sony and Konami both funding these projects (though let me clarify, the Kojima game is still in the talks at this point in time).

 

 

Actually this might belong in the Silent Hill thread too, but this is interesting WRT Death Stranding being a bummer for Sony (allegedly)