Nintendo News

[Maf]

Some laws are complicated. Some situations are complicated. But stealing property is kind of a straight forward one. 

 

Not that me or anyone should cry for Nintendo, they're doing all right. Not only have I pirated their games already, I was trying to do it last weekend on a 3DS emulator lol. But the roms are encrypted and I couldn't work that part out so did not manage too. 

 

But even though I'm not mad at people trying to emulate their games, when they turn around and go "all right enough" I also feel that's fair and can't get mad about that either. It's plain theft. And even though the emulator itself is not theft, lets be honest that's what it's used for. Even if I want to download and play a game that's effectively 'out of print', it's still theft (just no one cares). 

 

Emulating, especially current releases, is piss taking. I wouldn't tell anyone not to do it, but I also don't get mad when the company who owns the property says "Stop piss taking!". Ok, fair enough. 

EDIT: I don't hard disagree with what anyone is saying, I just am a bit mixed on it, and think just because it's a big company, doesn't automatically make it ok 

[one-armed dwarf]

The problem here is this topic is being discussed with too narrow a focus, that of whether or not Nintendo are legally justified in pursuing action in enabling piracy of stuff like Tears. Based on the behaviour of the devs, Nintendo may have a case there. The issue is this phrasing here

 

Quote

Yuzu unlawfully circumvents the technological measures on Nintendo Switchgames and allows for the play of encrypted Nintendo Switch games on devices other than a Nintendo Switch. Yuzu does this by executing code necessary to defeat Nintendo's manytechnological measures associated with its games, including code that decrypts the NintendoSwitch video game files immediately before and during runtime using an illegally-obtained copy of prod.keys (that ordinarily are secured on the Nintendo Switch). Users obtain the prod.keys either through unlawful websites or by unlawfully hacking a Nintendo Switch console.

 

'Unlawfully hacking a [...] console', their suit contends that reverse engineering these systems is by itself illegal. So what if this is construed as setting a precedent, and suddenly emulation itself is illegal? This can have lasting ripple effects. I can't really take seriously saying things like it's their IP so no point being mad about it, when these companies are so terrible at releasing these classics in the first place. They just want to lock them up in their vault and make them part of their content strategy for subscription services, like Disney+ does. Just purely disposable 'content', perks for paying a subscription that are frequently retired over time. It makes things even worse for preservation.

 

As mentioned, the law isn't always "right" about things. Just cause there's a legal framework that says this is the way doesn't mean it's something people should agree with. Currently, reverse engineering hardware is not considered illegal at all for that matter. But if hacking a Switch is illegal, then maybe this is too. This case puts a lot of these things in danger of being interpreted in a new and different light, just cause for this particular emulator piracy appears rampant.

[Maf]

13 minutes ago, one-armed dwarf said:

I can't really take seriously saying things like it's their IP so no point being mad about it, when these companies are so terrible at releasing these classics in the first place. They just want to lock them up in their vault and make them part of their content strategy for subscription services, like Disney+ does. Just purely disposable 'content', perks for paying a subscription that are frequently retired over time. It makes things even worse for preservation.

 

I just want to quote this bit first because for me this is the simplest part - this is fine by me. It's fine for people to not like this, it's also fine for a company to do what they want with their stuff. I don't see any wider focus to look at this with. This is just straight forward to me. If there's a case where a business tries to sell/use their IP in a way I dislike or disagree with, I just won't buy it. Which is fine. But I just can't find a way to get mad at them doing what they want with something they own. Whether it hurts preservation, history, anything else. It sucks, but it's their right. 

 

I can't think of any difference between this or someone telling me what to do with something that I own in my house. That's mine. I'll do what I want with it regardless of what you want me to do with it. 

 

Which does lead nicely on to this, though

 

13 minutes ago, one-armed dwarf said:

'Unlawfully hacking a [...] console', their suit contends that reverse engineering these systems is by itself illegal. So what if this is construed as setting a precedent, and suddenly emulation itself is illegal? This can have lasting ripple effects.

 

I don't think taking apart something you've bought should be illegal at all. I can't really think much more to say on this. 

 

But the what they get out of hacking the console is the problem. It's helping them beat Nintendo's security on their games. Which is enabling theft. It's this specific use of the reverse engineering which makes me turn the corner again and say Ok they have a case. Not the reverse engineering itself. 

 

[Maryokutai]

I think it's a bit short-sighted to look at it this way, especially considering all these big companies swallow stuff up left and right, resulting in something like Disney having access to the nuke button in terms of what they consider culturally significant. We're at the cusp of everything going digital or being linked to subscription services. By the time that switch has flipped all the way, many movies, shows, games etc. will just randomly fade in and out of existence and there will be no way of getting them back. I think breaking down the issue at hand is that culture is a puppet of capitalism. To an extent it might always have been, but at least in the analogue age preservation was a byproduct of everything that was created.

 

The whole hacking thing is a bit odd. I think the old rule of 'you're not getting any updates and support, official games don't work anymore and your warranty is void' should really be all the negative byproducts of messing around, in your own time, for yourself, with a piece of tech you bought.

[one-armed dwarf]

The point though is they can use a case like this to drive a wedge in that makes this part of the argument apply much more broadly to any emulation effort or hardware modification/reverse engineering

 

I don't really care much one way or the other wrt Yuzu and the dev's behaviour, but the argument Nintendo is putting forward could end up being about much more than them. It's all in the way it is couched

[Maf]

I like your post because I agree with everything in it @Maryokutai except the "puppet of capitalism" part lol.

 

I'm not saying bend over and take it. You can absolutely not like what a company is doing with a thing and not support it. 

 

I also agree that companies like Disney holding so many keys to licenses ends up in a shit situation for a lot of licenses. 

 

But I also kind of just have a black and white outlook of well, they did buy it, or in Nintendo's case create it, so it's theirs. I don't think that's being a puppet. That's just how things work and I don't know why it should work any differently. That sounds fair to me. 

 

To be clear I don't wholly disagree with what every one else thinks. This is why I keep saying I'm mixed on this subject because I get and agree with most of the view points and do think the same. 

 

At the very same time I just can't fully agree with "Fuck Big Business" because I just don't think they're wrong. 

 

Conflicted is a strong word but I end up in the middle. Preservation and emulation is good, and the emulator itself is not illegal, but theft is a pretty simple crime. Even in something as 'harmless' as theft from big business. When they say stop that shit. I just don't think they're wrong to say stop that shit 

[HandsomeDead]

I think there's things getting mixed up a bit here.  I get a bit lost in where I stand on this but overall I think when we talked about a change in IP law and the public domain is what I wish I saw more energy in.  I don't think just letting people pirate Switch games is going to empower the people who actually do the work and make the games at Nintendo.  We're not in a post capitalist society and pretending like we are with all this stuff isn't helpful, and at worst delusional.  Maybe let's get the UBI first before we start with this stuff.

 

I know at big companies there are useless ghouls taking most of the profits and even making bad decisions and you hate to see it, but there's a lot of putting the cart before the horse so I don't really see myself getting invested in these emulator folks getting away with everything.

[retroed]

Happy 7th(!) birthday to the Nintendo Switch. 

 

 

 

 

[Maf]

S tier box 

[AndyKurosaki]

Proper loving the Switch, having only got one last May, there’s loads still for me to discover and enjoy yet.

[Maf]

Well, that was quick

 

 

[Maf]

So there are a number of things I’ve seen on Twitter tonight about this. Firstly the statement from Yuzu

 

Point 1) lol

 

“We never meant”

As per the statement Citra is shutting down as well. I only tried using it 2 weeks ago and now it’s gone. Guess no point watching that YT video about how to decrypt the roms

 

The last thing I saw is apparently the thing that fucked this company was they were charging for Yuzu? It was behind a paywall and Patreon, or something. I didn’t get all the details on that. But I saw a few comments that if they hadn’t charged for it, Nintendo wouldn’t have been able to take it down

 

Not verified info in anyway, but thought it was worth sharing 

 

[Maryokutai]

Without knowing anything about these procedures, to me this reads like they simply chose the lesser of multiple evils and decided to fold before Nintendo could drag them through the mud for years to come. This also might not have as much a negative impact on the emulation scene as some of us feared, as there haven't been any court rulings at all.

[DANGERMAN]

On 03/03/2024 at 19:57, retroed said:

Happy 7th(!) birthday to the Nintendo Switch. 

 

 

 

 

I honestly thought it was older than that. I know I'm down on the performance of it, and the controllers, but considering it launched kind of weak it's really chugged along 

[Maf]

I’ve come a long way with the Switch. I remember turning it on for the first time and just being so underwhelmed by it. Not only was it unimpressive in terms of graphics, but even the lack of features and functionality. It’s a very bare bones video games console (I guess they wanted to go the complete opposite direction of the Wii U and the Miiverse stuff which - fuck you, Miiverse was rad)

 

Even though I think it had one of the strongest first years of any console with BotW and Odyssey, it then limped along a little bit with a bunch of Wii U ports which, if you haven’t played them before then great. But if you have it’s like yep. Tropical Freeze is still cool, I guess (no pun intended)

 

But with the OLED model which I talked about before, such an improvement and got me back in to handheld gaming. The constant string of great games ever since Metroid Dread onwards. It’s like you can’t go a month with out a game coming out you can’t play anywhere else which falls anywhere between a 8/10 - and oh this the best shit I ever played

 

Then they put the subscription service up and added a lot of Nintendo back catalogue stuff. Yeah, it’s drip fed and not perfect. But it’s so nice to have on the machine. For years people said Nintendo should do more with their back catalogue, and I think this is pretty decent considering 

 

And all of their changes paid off to make it such a success it even has the best 3rd party support Nintendo has ever had. 

 

I dunno. It went from eh, it’s fine to this probably the best Nintendo console they’ve ever made. 
 

Fair enough it doesn’t have a handle on it, but you can still pick it up

 

It’s why with Switch 2 I hope it’s just a Switch 2 with very little change. Newer hardware, better controllers and better online services. Just the same but better

 

Nintendo Switch the journey from C-tier box to S-tier box 

[Pikman]

I love mine too! It really has too many games for me now, I play maybe 5-10 hours a week and it is nowhere near enough to keep up with all of the great content.
(probably shouldn't have started a Persona game...).

 

I have loads (79) left on my wishlist on Deku Deals, it's mental.

Ha, I just checked I have 198 games, I definitely haven't played them all 😅

There really is something for everyone now, even my wife is happy with the games I've been picking up for the kids (A. Short Hike and Lil Gator Game for example, totally inoffensive and actually really great!).

[Maryokutai]

I was also initially very underwhelmed to the point where I forced myself to use it as a handheld exclusively just to differentiate it a little bit from the WiiU (as there was no noticeable jump in visual fidelity). I think it was only by the time Mario Odyssey got released that I started to properly accept it for what it is and started to enjoy playing both on TV and undocked.

 

In terms of software support Nintendo relied too much on WiiU re-releases for my taste, but it obviously made sense to move those over. On the other hand we got arguably the best 2D Metroid on the machine and a truckload of good games from third-party publishers/developers, so overall I'm very satisfied with it.

 

Should we do some quo vadis topic when the successor gets announced? There are so many games available for that system that have the potential to become rare/collector's items that it would be interesting to list a few forum favourites as long as they're still accessible.

[one-armed dwarf]

I got a switch a year late and BOTW was my first game with it, waiting out the zietgiest to see if people would stfu about it, and it became the best 80 hours of gaming ever. 

 

Other than that though, very rarely used, but BOTW was such a singularly excellent game that I don't regret buying one. 

[Pikman]

Do you have Mario Kart and Splatoon too? I think BOTW plus those two (oh and Dead Cells and Slay the Spire), account for the majority of my time on Switch

[Maryokutai]

There's something about the idea of dwarf sitting down to play Mario Kart that amuses me.