Shin Megami Tensei / Persona News

[Maryokutai]

Thought this was an US exclusive. Without the bag it'd actually be a nice special edition but that's such a useless gimmick (I'd never use it because it's limited and a bag in the closet is pointless).

[DisturbedSwan]

 

[DisturbedSwan]

 

Polygon: As a Persona player, Shin Megami Tensei 5 felt dark, challenging, and intriguing
 

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Shin Megami Tensei 5 is the latest entry in Atlus’ JRPG series where you fight and recruit demons. The franchise is known for a complex turn-based combat system where you’re able to negotiate with your foes — just like in Atlus’ other series, Persona. SMT5 starts when a stoic, bookish high schooler gets suddenly transported to a post-apocalyptic Tokyo and fuses with a demon to fight off monsters crawling across the city.

 

I’ve had my eye on the Shin Megami Tensei series for a while now. Persona 5 Royal, which has a lot in common with SMT, became a staple of my early pandemic days. I also knew that the series inspired the cult indie of a generation, Undertale. So when I saw both the remake, Shin Megami Tensei 3: Nocturne, and a new title, I decided it was finally time for me to sink my teeth into the series. I played a preview of the game on my Switch, which covered the first few hours of the game. While I spent the game fighting and training my monsters, I found myself missing some of the more social aspects of Atlus’ other games.

 

SMT5 spins a tale of biblical proportions. Upon entering its world, the first thing I hear is a dark, ominous voice, whose echoes give off a God-like omnipotence. The narrator weaves an Adam and Eve-like tale about a tree that’s the source of knowledge. This is a far cry from the silly high school antics of the Phantom Thieves in P5R, where the player talks to school principals and jocks to solve problems. Sure, SMT5 also follows a normal high school boy. But the stakes and setting are totally different as players are pulled off into a post-apocalyptic Tokyo filled with angels, demons, and glittering sand.

 

Despite these initial differences, a lot of the actual play feels familiar to other Atlus games. Much of the battle mechanics largely remain the same — jumping in, I see a recognizable cast of monsters like Pixie (a fairy who has healing powers) and Slime (a giant pile of slime). The elemental system remains the same as Persona as well; you can use attacks like Dia to heal, Zio to inflict lightning damage, and so on.

 

These fights are difficult; you need to collect monsters quickly and use them liberally. You can bring up to three with you in a fight, making for a total of four fighters when you include the main character. Negotiating is fun, but stressful; at one point I said the correct thing three rounds in a row only for the monster to backstab me and do a surprise attack.

 

Because of this focus on battles, the SMT5 preview felt like a stripped-down version of P5R. And while it felt more accessible to play, I did find myself missing certain P5R elements. When I played P5R, I kept a notebook with me because there was just so much to learn as a player new to the series. You date people, keep track of your own relationships, and manage the protagonist’s own characteristics. The list of what you need to know to play the game goes on. You can even go and get a job, for crying out loud. And this is all in addition to catching, training, and fusing monsters. It gets to be a lot.

 

In contrast, I spent most of my time playing SMT5 gritting my teeth in battles, making decisions that may impact the story in ways I don’t know yet. The fights are hard, but when you’re done with them, you won’t need to think about all the other stuff. This makes SMT5 a potentially easier entry point to what Atlus’ games are about, rather than the Persona games which are dense with lore and relationship management. It’s a standalone game that doesn’t connect to a previous story, and it introduces a lot of elements of Atlus’ JRPGs in a more digestible way.

 

Personally, I missed many of the aspects of P5R. It’s fun to date and hang out with friends in the game! I like silly little side missions where I go try to make Joker eat a burger larger than his head. Even if it means I need to keep track of and learn new game systems, that complexity adds fun breaks between dungeons. SMT5 does have a full cast of high schoolers that players will get to know better. But this game is more serious, and brutal — that’s reflected in its battles. That said, I am early in my playthrough, and I’m hoping to see a whole lot more of some of the classmates we see early in SMT5.

 

Shin Megami Tensei 5 is scheduled to be released Nov. 11 to the Nintendo Switch.

 

 

[Maryokutai]

Jesus Christ that preview made me wince. I know Persona as a spin-off has now surpassed the main series in terms of popularity and sales, but the "I miss that thing and that thing from Persona" is really not the kind of valid criticism I'd like to see from a professional outlet. It's not Persona, it's not going to be like Persona. Same reason you don't drive a kart in a 3D Mario game or fight hordes of enemies in a mainline Zelda.

[DANGERMAN]

ha, yeah, I didn't ant to come across as the SMT snob, but it's not a great angle for a piece. Ah well, they seemed to enjoy it, and if their only exposure to the series is Persona then that's what they're going to call on, and I suspect a lot of people that pick up SMT5 will never have played SMT before

[one-armed dwarf]

It's weird that that is even an expectation now with a SMT game, they were usually grimdark edgy versions of Pokemon and your friends where megalomaniac assholes with different visions to you

[Maf]

I'm someone who has only ever played the Persona arm of SMT and what the guy says in the article about missing the social aspects, to me that's the main thing I like about those games. I like all the different sides to Persona but all the different sides in that game are a means to an end, that end being maxing social links with people. And the music and overall presentation keeps it visually appealing too. 

 

If SMT is just the dungeon crawly bits with edge lord attitude. It's basically saying here is a Persona game minus all the things you like about it. 

[one-armed dwarf]

To me the preview seems more like misjudged expectations than that. It says at the bottom they hope to see more of their classmates. But when they see their classmates they might have already transformed into giant world ending incel whales, or power driven goddesses, or something else that's not gonna lead to a fun social link interaction.

 

Least that's what I reckon. What do I know tho? An incel whale might have an interesting social link.

[DisturbedSwan]

Whilst I get where @Maryokutai and @DANGERMAN are coming from as SMT vets, I think SMTV will be a lot of folks' first time playing an SMT game whereas they may of played 1 or 2 Persona games, so I think the perspective of an SMT noob but Persona vet is an angle that a lot of people will resonate with. 

 

I fit into that bracket having played P4 & P5 but never touched an SMT game, so it's quite handy to know the differences and know what I could be getting in to before I take the plunge. But I also get why that wouldn't be relevant to SMT vets.

[HandsomeDead]

It's one outlet and one perspective.  I'm sure they'll be others that at least played SMTIV since I think that game did okay.

 

But I think comparisons to Persona are going to be made because of its popularity but it's not like SMT games don't have their own take on the traditional JRPG that are much more worth talking about than what it's missing compared to Persona.  Other JRPGs get the luxury of being talked about without the idea it's missing dating sim mechanics.

[Maf]

Other JRPG's don't say SMT on it 

 

I haven't played these games so you tell me but they sound very similar in terms of battle. Spell names, what they do, talking to monsters, a party of 4, dungeon crawling, high school. Is it really an unfair comparison? 

[one-armed dwarf]

They have identical battle systems and mostly similar progression mechanics outside of social links. But where they couldn't be more different is the fact that the Persona series is very character driven, SMT typically is old school to the point of being NES-like . Your main character is hardly a character. The other characters are representations of neutral good, chaotic evil etc etc etc all those DnD archetypes. 

 

So that's the main thing I would say to people who are wondering when they will meet their high school chums in SMTV. Unless this is a divergence to make it more persona like. That could happen, but I bet it's more like what I said.

 

Like to put into perspective when Persona 3 came out it was a real odd ball entry in the PS2 SMT catalogue, the chirpy dating-sim 'lite' mechanics aren't matched by any of the other titles. They are all very grim and oppressive games about the end of the world, well most of them are I think. Persona 2 is a thing that also exists, but even that one is weird. It has Hitler in it lol

[Maf]

Persona games bounce between light and dark. Although I guess they’re more quirky dark then crushingly suicidal. Despite in Persona 3 

Spoiler

All the religious stuff going on. That crazy guy think he’s Demon Jesus and the main character dies at the end to save humanity 

But 4 and 5 get lighter.

 

I dunno. There must be something this game does that’s different and makes it stand out. Purely in description it sounds like Persona except it’s all battle no play. 

[Maryokutai]

48 minutes ago, Maf said:

Other JRPG's don't say SMT on it 

 

Neither does Persona since Golden, it's basically its own series now.

 

Also for the record I'm not even a hardcore SMT person. From the mainline games I only played IV and Apocalypse, but I played a bunch of different spin-offs throughout the years (Digital Devil Saga, Devil Survivor, Soul Hackers, Strange Journey, Persona 4, Tokyo Mirage Sessions if you're pedantic). I think all these can stand on their own and none of these except Persona (and TMS, again, if you're pedantic) have a social aspect.

[HandsomeDead]

I just think it is going to be a shame if it's slept on because of a lack of social mechanics.  I've only put a large amount of time in SMTIV out of the mainline games and it is excellent.  It has a great world, monsters are given more personality and presence in your team.

 

The social links in Persona are unique and well implemented and I'll always give it props for that but don't use that as an excuse to sleep on the mainline games.

[Maf]

Well if we’re getting technical

 

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Persona 5 is a 2016 role-playing video game developed by Atlus. It is the sixth installment in the Persona series, which is part of the larger Megami Tensei franchise. Wikipedia

 

I don’t think people should sleep on it either but not sure why these games are so different you can’t possibly say this one is like this other one or compare them at all. 

[one-armed dwarf]

Really the main point is SLs aren't a defining characteristic of SMT, it's a characteristic of the spinoff Persona sub-series. Yes the sub series is bigger than the parent one now but it doesn't change that fact. Only Persona does that stuff.

 

I think that's the main thing people should just think about when picking it up so they aren't disappointed. 

[HandsomeDead]

I guess my problem is in this case its a form of criticism that is kinda overly surface level.  Bringing up something it doesn't have or even intended to have is just an uninteresting approach.  I know previews are based on a quick play and you need to get something to say out of it but it's kinda moot.

 

Maybe Persona but just the battle aspect isn't the worst bottom line for a brief normie impression but they are more than that and it would be cool if someone previewing it could capture that.

[DANGERMAN]

7 hours ago, DisturbedSwan said:

Whilst I get where @Maryokutai and @DANGERMAN are coming from as SMT vets, I think SMTV will be a lot of folks' first time playing an SMT game whereas they may of played 1 or 2 Persona games, so I think the perspective of an SMT noob but Persona vet is an angle that a lot of people will resonate with. 

 

I fit into that bracket having played P4 & P5 but never touched an SMT game, so it's quite handy to know the differences and know what I could be getting in to before I take the plunge. But I also get why that wouldn't be relevant to SMT vets.

to be fair, I did say it was a valid opinion and I was glad that they seemed to enjoy it, it's just a bit backwards to talk about the original series (SMT isn't actually the original SM series) as being the changed one. There's no doubting there's differences though, and there'll be people who don't like SMT as much as Persona for the tone and lack of social links, whereas that's why I prefer SMT to Persona

 

@Maf the "edginess" of SMT is being a bit overstated. Generally they start with the end of the world or at least Tokyo, so they're bleaker in tone. Shin Megami Tensei 4's story focused on class systems and social mobility, whether it's better to keep the status quo of the 'elite' and the workers, or the chaos that would ensue from ripping up the system. Persona has its moments of touching on some heavier subjects, especially the earlier ones, but it has started to lean heavily towards road trips and bantz with an upbeat talking animal. There's actually a pet of sorts in Strange Journey, but it... yeah

 

Also the combat can be a little different. SMT has demons in your party, so what types you have will switch more. They also bring in different nuances for the weaknesses with each game (3 plays slightly different to 4), things like extra turns being rewarded or just more powerful attacks to follow. Generally each one differs a little bit from the previous one, certainly a lot more than something like Dragon Quest

[spatular]

Im one of those people that probably prefers persona, mainly playing this sort of game for the story, im not so interested in the turn based combat which seems to be more the main part of an smt game. I was planning on trying 5 as my first smt game but i played that nocturn one already now, and its sort of put me off 5 a bit, but i still think im going to give 5 a go. Nocturn had the one big advantage that it was much shorter than the persona games ive played, but although there was some good/interesting stuff in there the plot was a bit all over the place and i didnt really care about the characters 

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Because theyre idiots

But it is quite old so going to give a more modern one a go.