Computer Questions Thread

[one-armed dwarf]

in my defense jimbo I did actually try to corral it in here, it's why I bumped the thread

 

10 hours ago, one-armed dwarf said:

Maf I bumped the Questions thread. IMO, spend the afternoon figuring out the shit you dont get and dump it in one big post because there will be a lot to figure out. It's going to be weird to get used to for a while. But your monitor not having speakers is not surprising, even if it did have speakers they would be so shit you would not want to use them. It's going to be headphones, external speakers, or whatever you are using on your TV imo

 

Me and Blakey, the worst back seat mods 😢

[Maf]

My bad, sorry, guys 

[Jimboxy]

@Mafo no worries, I'm glad you're excited just check the thread title first!

7 minutes ago, one-armed dwarf said:

in my defense jimbo I did actually try to corral it in here, it's why I bumped the thread

 

 

Thank you, it is appreciated

[Maf]

Not technically a computer question but I dunno to post this.

 

Today I have been reading a bit and watching a bit about DLSS trying to understand what it does.
 

What I thought it did was what PlayStation 4 Pro’s used to do and that’s fake a 4K image by taking a lower resolution and upscaling it with that checkerboard stuff. I get that DLSS and checkerboard are different technologies/techniques but I thought that was the idea.

 

But messing around with GotG and Cyberpunk if I have the games output at 4K and use DLSS performance I’m getting maybe a extra 15-25fps give or take with no noticeable drop in image quality. At least not as far as I can tell.

 

So I found a Reddit thread and basically the outline was 

• If output at 4K use performance 
• if output at 1440p use balanced
• if 1080p use quality

But then I found another Reddit thread that said you should use quality if your at a monitor because you’re closer than you would be on a sofa.  
 

So I’m very confused. I don’t know why not just output at 4K and have performance on all the time? Even at a monitor, I can’t see the difference.

 

I’m noticing I get torn with PC game settings between what the right answer is and what the right answer for me is. If I change shit and I don’t notice, then it shouldn’t matter. But even if I can’t tell then I start doubting if what I’m doing is correct and I find it distracting. 
 

And DLSS I’m not sure what the answer is. I think I’ll just leave it on performance. I can’t find a reason not too despite Reddit threads saying I’m doing it wrong. 

[one-armed dwarf]

DLSS is ai driven reconstruction. It's guessing what the image will look like with imperfect information. Some stuff it's really good at and sometimes it will look better than a native 'real' image. Other stuff it struggles with, like hair. Sometimes it can add noise, some games will have different experiences. It's changing a lot and they are making new versions all the time

 

Nvidia are all about AI. These guys are using AI to make self driven cars, so expect their AI solutions to be super beyond anything that a PS4 Pro is doing. But it's still new tech, and such

 

If you don't notice the difference in image quality I'm not sure what the issue is tbh. What you need to understand though is the questions you're asking are more subjective in nature than they are technical, even if they mostly seem technical. That reddit thread thing is the same. That's all you need to think about with PC settings, don't fixate on what other people are saying just look at how it looks to you, and stop caring so much about it if you dont notice a difference

 

In my own opinion, DLSS is useless except when your display resolution is 4k, cause the downgrade is too noticeable at 1440 and 1080, unless maybe at 1440 you use quality. I also think it's much better for TV than on a monitor.

 

But you're going to notice weird shit occasionally. It doesn't like depth of field in Guardians of the Galaxy for instance. I notice weird ectoplasm behind characters with it on. Solution, turn off DoF, or not give a shit. But I also notice weird shit that I feel like other people don't notice, like how the walls in Control look like they are buzzing with it on, or how some stuff appears smeared. But if you dont notice any of that then it doesn't matter, that's the thing that matters (ironic)

 

I guess I'll just add, fwiw I beat Guardians at 4k on balanced, it looked fine with the exception of some very minor artifacts during scenes (which I didn't care about). Cyberpunk is more challenging, there is a ton going on in every image. I can't remember what I set it to but essentially I just decided to accept imperfect performance with that one, considering how good it could look

[Maf]

It would be easier for me to make decisions on what I prefer if I could actually see the difference, I think. Like if I chose performance and could see the image was noticeably worse then it would help me decide what I want more. Or if when I put quality mode on I could see any difference, other than my FPS get lower, it would help me know what I like. When I can’t tell the difference is what creates doubt. But also yeah I should just not care then, too. But I find it hard not too! There’s a constant distraction of ‘am I getting the most out of this’. 
 

I’ve been messing more with GotG than Cyberpunk. My problem with Cyberpunk is I just don’t think the game looks that good no matter what I do to it. I’ve only played a bit of it, so maybe more impressive things are coming down the line. But right now I don’t get what the big deal is. 
 

It could also be I don’t really like the art style much and that detracts for me what it’s doing technically. But as of right now I think it’s super overhyped. Or you need a 3090 I dunno.

 

I think for now I’ll just stick with performance on GotG and maybe they’ll be another game down the line that helps teach me more about it. But right now I don’t really get what it does other than drop FPS for no reason. 
 

Unless quality mode is upscaling 4K to higher and my monitor doesn’t do that. Maybe that’s why I can’t tell the difference, I dunno

[one-armed dwarf]

Honestly, play some low taxing games for a while maybe. I've started up Inscryption, it's pretty cool. Play that.

 

It doesn't have to be this graphics arms race all the time, PC gaming is not just about getting the best possible experience right this second, it's moreso about stuff being very scalable and users having control over that scalability rather than having to wait an entire console generation for it. I think right now you've got this monster PC and your expectations are telling you everything should be kneeling before it, but pc gaming isn't really like that. You would not be in such a different situation with a 3090, and it's best to cut out the whole 'oh, what if I had a more powerful system?'. Down that path lies madness

 

It was never about maxing games out all the time, you can do that but it's not the end all be all. But if you don't notice the image quality dip with DLSS then that's a good thing. I mean, I don't notice HDR. No big deal.

[Maf]

There’s definitely some of that ‘blow the doors off’ expectation with the 3080. Especially coming from nothing. Maybe my expectations are out of whack. But also it’s an element of just wanting to get the most out of it too. It know it’ll have limits, I’m just trying to understand them and what options are most effected or necessary.
 

And it’s hard when I sit there toggling this or that and struggling to see what the results are. I was messing around with GotG ray tracing today switching between Ultra and High and it’s like man. I can’t tell you. Apparently the resolution of the reflections drop but I only read that, can’t confirm. 
 

I must have spent a solid 45 minutes today playing with all the DLSS stuff before settling with performance. Weirdly if I turn DLSS completely off the game ran at 20fps. I don’t understand that at all lol. 
 

I know more options are better, and it suits PC because of the amount of different configurations, but honestly I think I also appreciate how simple it is on consoles of you want quality or performance? Done. 
 

I like messing with the options but also it’s becoming a bit too distracting. It’s part of why I want to set everything to highest. Take the choice away from me, I’m not good at understanding them.

 

I almost want to power through the games not because of being power mad but so I get to skip the choices. 

[one-armed dwarf]

Well you're not getting the most out of anything just playing the settings menu all the time. 

 

When in doubt, if you can't tell the difference between high and ultra, pick high. High is the PS5 'quality' setting (sometimes it's medium). You will tell the FPS difference more than the often negligible ultra settings difference. Console players seem to have this same song and dance with quality and performance but its mimicked in them having to choose between 30fps and 60, which is way more noticeable

 

It ran bad with DLSS completely turned off cause it was running 4k native, with it on it was 1440 native (or 1080, depending on setting). RT is too expensive right now to run native.

[Maf]

5 minutes ago, one-armed dwarf said:

It ran bad with DLSS completely turned off cause it was running 4k native, with it on it was 1440 native (or 1080, depending on setting)

 

What do you mean? It was set to 4K native anyway with DLSS on. But when I turned it off it ran terrible. I'm not understanding what you mean. 

[one-armed dwarf]

Your 'native' resolution when running DLSS isn't the same as your 'display' resolution, so that is why the performance is dramatically different.

 

4k DLSS on isn't 4k 'native', it doesn't have 4k's worth of visual information, it is reconstructed from a lower res. The effects you're running like RT are incredibly expensive with how they scale at higher resolutions. That is why.

[DANGERMAN]

@one-armed dwarfControl just has a fizzy look to it. I played it on the Pro and it was doing it, it's really distracting isn't it!

[one-armed dwarf]

I think Nag said the same, iirc tho the combo of DLSS and RT somehow made it way worse when I messed around with. There was one wall where it was slightly noisy with RT turned off, then you turn it on and with DLSS it's like omg no the bees are going to eat me

 

That's maybe the only game I can relate to maf on the whole settings paralysis stuff. The RT looks cool, but the artifacts definitely don't.

[Nag]

Quantum Break had a similar thing going on, on console at least, it seems to be a Remedy thing.

[Maf]

Here’s a weird one. I tried out Tomb Raider 2013 on PC. At first I was using custom settings, but the game was struggling to stay at 60. Which seems weird. So I dropped everything from highest to second highest. It didn’t change that much. Still fighting for 60. 
 

I looked online to see what other people were saying and found that selecting the Ultra preset instead of manually toggling everything up the game hits a 140-160fps. The only difference I can see between what I toggled and the preset is the AA is on FXAA instead of 4x MSAA. I quickly googled the difference and it seems as is FXAA is better anyway? More efficient apparently (Must be if it was costing me 90fps)

Happy now it’s running at higher FPS but very strange the preset gives different results to custom, especially when the preset overall is using higher settings 

 

Also kind of separately, do you need v-sync if the monitor does g-sync? Doesn’t it do the same thing

[one-armed dwarf]

I googled that and it said the highest AA is upresing your game or something, so like 4k would have been 16k or something lol

[Maf]

Oh, no wonder then. 16K55 is not too bad!

[Sly Reflex]

Sometimes making the graphic settings higher can sort some frame rate issues because you're putting more stress on the GPU and freeing up the CPU. I've had a few games like this where dropping the graphics made the game run worse. Cities Skylines was one, the other I can't remember off the top of my head, I'd have to look through my games.

[Maf]

Anybody know what this tab is for? I googled it, but I don't really get it. Apparently if ticking Override and scale on GPU it helps with input lag. But at the cost of what?

 

[one-armed dwarf]

No idea what any of that is tbh

 

I have a PC question, for once. The past few days I've noticed a weird thing where my display will flicker on and off (goes black and comes back). I get this in the event viewer

 

'A caller specified the SDC_FORCE_MODE_ENUMERATION flag in a call to the SetDisplayConfig() API'

 

It can apparently be caused by having a dual monitor set up (my Asus monitor and LG CX).

 

I guess I'm just asking has any other nvidia users had the same issue happen recently. I guess that's maf and sly reflex, not sure who else has them. Or if Sly does the dual monitor thing.

 

I clicked on this reddit thread for a recent driver and it seems like a lot of people are encountering this.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/r1g553/geforce_hotfix_driver_version_49698/