Alan Wake II

[one-armed dwarf]

I don't know what you're getting at, but yeah you can also flare enemies and run past them. That's totally valid. 

 

This game rubberbands resources like crazy. You should use up the stuff you've got. The stun grenades, the shotgun shells. Or pop out a flare or run or whatever

 

Also another thing, be careful about 'running' in this game. If you're trying to create distance, running is faster but has more animation startup. Sometimes you need to move slow if you want to respond quickly, so sometimes backing up and just walking is enough. Cause you recover quicker and can shoot/flashlight them. Especially once you encounter enemies who don't care how much distance you can create between them, cause they can just teleport in your face. 

 

It also gives you more time to react with a dodge, rather than running everywhere and getting in trouble. Sometimes you do need to run though, but you have to be aware of the enemies you're fighting, the geometry of the area your fighting and also how to handle visibility, cause visibility is actually kinda a gameplay mechanic in this. They literally want you to play the game at a really dim level in HDR, it's on purpose

 

Honestly, I don't think this game is as good at action as RE4 obviously, but I also don't think it's too complicated in its combat interactions. It's kinda straightforward stuff. Create a small bit of space, use some damage control (flares). Use your powerful weapons. The real big thing with the console version however is aiming with an analog stick and the framerate, no hot tips for that, but maf has no excuse for that now

[AndyKurosaki]

I agree with Nag, the combat is pretty crap. Saga is fine for the most part, as she has access to far more guns/ammo than Alan does. 
But Alan’s levels are bloody awful. Mostly because it’s never actually clear what enemies you’re supposed to hit, and which you’re supposed to avoid. If they’re to be avoided, they will disappear when you bump into them. If not, you’re to do the usual trick of using your light to take away their shield, then blast them. But they all look the bloody same. So quite often, you’ll spunk away ammo/battery power, only to realise you shouldn’t have bothered. 
 It’s really bloody annoying. 
 

Even worse are the (thankfully rare) parts where you have to run away from a cloud of darkness, that instantly kills you if you touch it. Unfortunately, it’s not clear at all which is the correct area run towards, and which will get you killed instantly. One of those sections killed me repeatedly, eventually I had to resort to a YouTube video, as I couldn’t figure out which damn way I was supposed to be going. 
 

Saga’s levels are mostly fine. Alan’s, can fuck right off. 

[Nag]

8 hours ago, AndyKurosaki said:

Saga’s levels are mostly fine. Alan’s, can fuck right off.

 

😂... bit of a problem given the games title... 😂

[mfnick]

7 hours in, just finished the Watery boss with Saga. Loving it so far, dripping in atmosphere and just really enjoying gameplay loop. Although the Character profiling thing is fucking stupid. Even in a world with weird ghost monsters & living books. 
 

Very pleasantly surprised. I wasn’t a big fan of the original or Control but this is really hitting for me.

 

I definitely empathise with the enemies in Alan’s section being confusing in which you have to engage with but I guess that’s also the point? Always makes you feel uneasy. But I’ve only done his 1st main set of chapters before being able to swap to him so I can imagine it getting more frustrating as it goes on. I’ll just turn the difficulty down if it gets that bad. I have been really enjoying combat in Saga’s sections though. 

[mfnick]

Just done We Sing. Ok that was pretty damn good even with all the hype about it. Thankfully I managed to avoid actual details and any videos of it. Good stuff. 

[Maf]

I think I played all 3 big survival horror games this year - Dead Space Remake, RE4 Remake and now AW2. It's weird because I think DS is definitely the scariest in terms of atmosphere, and RE4 has the best action, and still think AW2 is the best game. 

 

Like it's weird to say, well this survival horror game is not very scary and the action is one dimensional but it's such a unique creation it's just so much more fun than the other games to play through. I guess it not being a remake helps as well. The other 2 are very known quantities (Especially DS). 

 

WRT the shadows in Alan's levels. I found pretty early that if you just point the flashlight at them (Not focus, just hover over), after a few seconds the fake enemies disappear but the real ones don't. I haven't done much of Alan's side but from I found that was how to spot the difference 

[AndyKurosaki]

It’s definitely unique, no doubt about it. But personally, I prefer both Dead Space Remake and RE4 over this. The combat in both of those games is far more satisfying, and the story is vastly superior because it actually makes sense. 
By the time I finished AW2, most of what had happened had gone completely over my head, and I’d had enough of it. I found Alan’s levels to be impossible to get through without a guide, there was far too much wandering aimlessly around dark areas. 
 

Maybe you’re right about just pointing your flashlight at those enemies, but does the game ever tell you that? Pretty sure it doesn’t. So I’d say the natural reaction would be to use the flashlight like you have been doing with all the other enemies. 
 

I’d say that anyone could play either DS2, or RE4, and enjoy them. But AW2, I would suggest, is strictly for the fans. If someone hasn’t played AW1, or Control, they won’t have a clue what the hell is going on. 

[one-armed dwarf]

I haven't played AW1 and the Control stuff is more about easter eggs, Control is just a 'side-quel' that expands the world but isn't required in any sense. Much more comparable to the very early MCU in that sense (rather than recent years).

 

AWII works fine on its own, it's just using elements of surrealism in its story delivery, which can use free associations between strange abstractions of ideas*. Basically that it's not supposed to be all in concrete terms, it's more dreamlike, AWII is about a subconscious artistic world intermingling with reality. Playing AW1 isn't really required to engage with the basic themes on that level, it's fairly familiar stuff for this genre. If you're used to stuff like that, or Lynch or Bergman or whatever, AWII seems pretty familiar. Watch In the Mouth of Madness for something with a similar type of plot, also schlocky in a fun way like AWII can be, it's a John Carpenter film.

 

But you don't need to go all deep in the weeds with stuff like that to make any of these connections, nor does the game expect you to either, it's just fun to hang out in a world where fiction and reality blur at the edges and create strange juxtapositions that are fun to watch. It has nothing to do with playing the prequels or not. 

 

The way I see it, REmake 1 and SH2 are sort of up there as the high watermarks of this genre, and these are games where the combat is little more than a function of spacing, resource management and pushing the shoot or swing button. It's how that stuff works in tandem with everything else which makes them brilliant games and in a similar sense you could break AWII to a very clinical degree and ding it for its ordinary combat, but like these other games AWII is much more than the sum of its parts (if I'm honest I consider it much better than SH2. Now there's another game which drenches you in subtext via surreal and suggestive imagery) 

 

editing for very minor spoilers

 

*

Spoiler

what I mean by that is like how the visuals of a level will connect to themes of the plot, and you get these little snippets of FMV cut in with overwrought monologues written in a kinda noir style and it evokes things like boilerplate fiction, the stuff Alan writes, but also stuff like Max Payne, which Sam Lake worked on. Which I've also not played, but through osmosis you know about it and its stylistic legacy and the game will reflect this 

 

[Nag]

It's funny that Remedy keep getting all these accolades for games that in my opinion certainly don't deserve them when they've released a game that plays much better than either of them and has a fairly clever story that isn't completely up it's own arse... Quantum Break😊... which was almost overlooked.

[one-armed dwarf]

I got to admit I'm curious about that one, I think it's on PC. That said the way they integrate the FMV stuff in that with having you watch literal episodes of TV in between is super offputting to me, give how gracefully it's integrated in Control and this game (which is also a key part of the appeal of these newer ones to me)

 

I'll get around to it at some point

[AndyKurosaki]

I think it’s a real shame Quantum Break didn’t come to PlayStation, as I’d certainly have played that. 
 

Nag makes a valid point about AW2 being “up its own arse”. The prime example of that being the musical part. Ok, it starts off fine, and I get them wanting to try something different. But it vastly outstayed its welcome. By the end of it, I was thinking “Can we have a bit less of wanking ourselves off, and make Alan’s levels not be utter bollocks”. Unfortunately, they couldn’t. 
 

I don’t know, I get what you’re saying, but I still don’t think AW2 is for the masses, or a standalone game. I’ve no doubt it’ll have its fans, and while I didn’t love it, I enjoyed it enough to get the Platinum. But, I bet I’m not the only person that’s played it and thought “What the fuck is going on?”

[DisturbedSwan]

Finished this a week ago and got the Plat.

 

Had a lot of fun with it overall but never fully loved the combat, like others have said on here really. The first 7-8 hours were fantastic but it went a bit downhill after that really, not a huge drop off but a steady decline all the way to the finish line that meant the game just didn’t really end up in a satisfying way for me.

 

It gets lots of tactile things right like the case board wall etc., the atmosphere is fantastic and I absolutely loved the old folks home level but the Alan sections weren’t too fun and the story I just never really loved and felt like it ended on a confusing whimper really. 
 

So yeah, wouldn’t be anywhere near me GOTY, probably not in the top 5 but it’s still a game I’m really glad I played and think is very good, just doesn’t reach those upper echelons for me and is nowhere near as good as Control.

 

Spoiler

 

 

[Maf]

I'm cooling on this game a bit, while still liking it a lot. I have 2 issues with the story. Firstly if you have a shit memory like me then swapping back and forth makes it sort of hard to follow. Like I get the outline but I forget the specifics.

 

I also think maybe the specifics aren't that interesting anyway. There are reveals about Saga's family and stuff and I'm like...so? There are times when you have to watch Alan's wife speak a lot about what happened after AW1 and I find myself opening Chrome while she talks. 

 

I saw in the thread there was discussion about what you need to play before this game. Even though I don't think any game is a requirement, playing Control might be just as helpful as playing AW1. They retcon a tonne of stuff from the first game, with the only things really left standing is the premise, the ending and the name Tom Zane. So not essential but would help.

 

You then need Control for the lingo. AEW's, FBC's, the way they identify paranormal stuff, etc. Also the Control elements become a lot more relevant in the back 1/3rd of the game. Again you don't need it, but it probably helps. 

 

I still think this game is just a great experience, though. 1 thing you have to give Remedy credit for is it's not more of the same. I think that's why I like it so much because even if the core gameplay is basic, the experience is still very unique. 

[AndyKurosaki]

Yeah there was one section where a character referred to both AEW and FBC’s, and neither term was explained at all. I see doctors/medical staff using abbreviations in my work, and it’s so bloody annoying. Ok, they might know what they’re an abbreviation of. But not everyone does. So when this used them, it was a real “Didn’t you play Control?” moment. 
 

I think the story is a bit of an issue, in as much it’s quite often making things unnecessarily complicated. 
 

But you’re absolutely right, Remedy are to be praised for doing something that’s certainly different. 

[AndyKurosaki]

Alan is the latest character being added to Dead By Daylight, he’s out on the PC Demo build now, the chapter will then be fully released on January 30th.

 

I love DBD, been playing it regularly for 5 years. Alan is definitely a great fit for the franchise.

[Maf]

Ending spoilers

 

Spoiler

I'm not sure if I didn't understand it, or did understand it but didn't find the ending very satisfying. I like the cliffhanger/callback to the first game how it ends on a "It's not a [blank] it's a [blank]". Stuff like that is just enjoyable. I thought the phone ringing was a bit too Inception.

 

I still don't really know how Alan is connected to the Dark Place. So all of he's stories he's ever written were happening in the Dark Place because he's connected to it, and that's why the Darkness wants him because he makes reality there, so it can reverse polarity that shit and make it's reality in the real world through him? Or something? 

 

WRT Saga - her and her family all having psychic powers. I thought that was cheap and feels really disconnected from everything else. 

 

Tbh I found myself more intrigued by Ahti, Door and how it connects back to Control than the main story. I think at this point I'd definitely take Control 2 over AW3, as long as they delved more in to these areas of the story. 

 

I just looked it up but apparently the true ending is at the end of the Final Draft mode (Which appears to be some kind of NG+ mode with some story changes). Maybe a second playthrough now knowing the reveals will help it make more sense. I will have a break for bit and come back to it. 

 

I realised why I like this game so much. It's the first, new, good cinematic game I've played in a long time. It's also just up it's own ass enough but revels in the genre and fun of it's spooky looping horror instead of being very serious about it. 

 

[one-armed dwarf]

Yeah, the game is pure camp. It's a missing ingredient in a lot of stuff these days, especially now that Metal Gear is gone. Or at least Kojima directed Metal Gear (who's also unfortunately gotten more dour with his Death Stranding stuff).

 

You've got to have a balance between the dark stuff and levity. Whatever one makes about the plot, or the mechanics, I think Remedy understand the tenets of the film/TV/written word genres they ape off of so much better than most others in the AAA side of the industry

[AndyKurosaki]

I definitely didn’t understand the ending, or most of the story in general to be honest 😄

[one-armed dwarf]

Purely on story, I think

Spoiler

the idea is to make it this kinda recursive thing for a player/viewer to obsess over. I also don't really understand the ending*. But the idea I think is to draw the player back in and have them see earlier stuff with later game context.

 

I have mixed feelings about it, cause I think it asks too much of a player when the game, as good as it is, isn't systemically all that interesting. So you're asking a lot from the other elements of the game to carry a player through. Perhaps DLC will correct this.

 

Like there's some films, like Citizen Kane, where they're like a russian doll with a nested narrative structure but also an ouroboros which wraps back into itself. Like you know what rosebud is, but do you really know what that means (if anything)?. So people watch it over and over. I think that was the idea here. They try and spell that out in a very literal way with the 'its a spiral' thing, which I think is an inelegant metaphor. 

 

I'll grant Kane is not as oblique as this is however

 

I've not dived back in yet. Well I played a little of Final Draft but it was far too familiar. It needed something a bit more like Nier

 

* though I didn't really find this to be an obstacle in getting anything out of the game, which I already got into in one of my other walls of text. I'm not totally sure the ending is really the important part of it