Elden Ring

[one-armed dwarf]

Rune arcs and great rune are different, rune arc is a temporary buff but great runes you have to 

Spoiler

go to their respective divine tower (which involves a bit of a traversal puzzle) and 'activate' them there

 

If you dont want to read that spoiler, it's in the item description on the great rune itself (in case someone wants to puzzle it out instead of being told)

[OCH]

25 minutes ago, one-armed dwarf said:

it's in the item description on the great rune itself

I noticed they are a lot less obtuse with item locations than they used to be. I found half a medallion in a fort. The item description told me exactly where to find the other half.

[mfnick]

1 hour ago, one-armed dwarf said:

Rune arcs and great rune are different, rune arc is a temporary buff but great runes you have to 

So wait, have I activated it or not? & is it permanent? I went to the top of the tower but that’s where I got the Great Rune. So do  I now need to go elsewhere to activate it? 

[one-armed dwarf]

You need to equip it then at a site of grace, then you will see the rune in your health bar. Sounds like you've already activated it, but maybe not equipped it 

 

It's permanent unless you swap it out

 

Rune arc is a buff you can put on top of that as well, everytime I use a rune arc tho it seems to debuff my skills in real life and I die faster than usualy, which is very weird

[mfnick]

How do I equip it though? I’ve tried in my equipment menu and can’t seem to find it. I thought it’d be where you equip the other buffs but didn’t seem to let me do anything.  
 

56 minutes ago, one-armed dwarf said:

Rune arc is a buff you can put on top of that as well, everytime I use a rune arc tho it seems to debuff my skills in real life and I die faster than usualy, which is very weird

😁

 

[mmmark]

It’s good that it’s obtuse and vague and that you have to Google everything. That’s part of the game design. 

[one-armed dwarf]

I mean Elden Ring has some issues like that, but the equip rune option is right there in the grace/bonfire menu. 

 

Right now I'm sort of 'labbing' the hardest boss in the game. It's an optional fight. It's a very delicate dance of death with some brutal mechanics, has aspects of

Spoiler

Gehrman's

fight from Bloodborne.

(edit I added this BB spoiler in cause I just forgot people are playing Bloodborne on here)

 

Except (mechanics spoilers)

Spoiler

She has 'life steal', so every hit she lands on you heals her. Her combos hit hard, so you have to play with a glass cannon mentality, which appeals to me cause I always play glass cannon. She also has one bullshit move tho which is a big spinny vortex flurry across the screen which as far as I can see can only be correctly resolved with a 100 percent physical dmg mitigation shield with good endurance mitigation. Which bottlenecks the possibility of this encounter a lot, cause I never use a shield and haven't blocked a single attack in this game. Until now, where it is required

 

if you get hit by this attack, you will die. If by chance you dont die she will heal about a quarter of her health. Even if you block it, she gets some heals. But to balance this she has 0 poise in a game with fast attacks and where every boss has tons of poise, so it's not that brutal in context (tho it is extremely brutal by itself)

 

edit I have a clip of the attack, either you use a shield or you space yourself so far out during the whole fight that you cant capitalise on openings as well. cause she can just bring it out at will and you cant run away fast enough at close range

 

 

 

I will try and grind this one encounter without summons, then just spam summons at the end game cast of bosses, cause I'm at 100 hours in this now and would like to see an end soon. But don't want to rush to that end first without seeing one of the few mechanically interesting encounters in the game first, cause I feel my interest to do so will be drained by what's in store otherwise.

 

Name of boss is

Spoiler

Malenia ,

if anyone who doesn't give a fuk about spoilers wants to just watch it on youtube to see what it is

[mfnick]

1 hour ago, one-armed dwarf said:

but the equip rune option is right there in the grace/bonfire menu. 

Ah, I didn’t know I had to do it at a grace site.

 

1 hour ago, mmmark said:

It’s good that it’s obtuse and vague and that you have to Google everything. That’s part of the game design. 

This part is really annoying and it adds zero IMO being this awkward. Why can’t I just equip stuff from inventory menu? 
Luckily it’s only happened about 3-4 times where I’ve had to resort to googling so it’s not too bad. 
 

I’ve reached a bit of a wall in this now. I can’t seem to find anywhere to progress. Need certain keys or the areas are just too difficult and I fee severely under levelled. So been doing some boss mop ups for experience. Beaten 3 dragons now too. Including that bastard Scarlet rot one. What a cunt he was. 

[OCH]

I imagine the thing with the Great Runes is being buffs/status changes. They aren't like traditional boss souls, so they wanted to try a new approach. Without their context or purpose, I have explored a couple of those towers now. They're not easy. But I just found them from general exploring. Hitting the brick wall of Marge early on, encouraged me to look at other points of interest on the map.

 

29 minutes ago, mfnick said:

Beaten 3 dragons now too.

Do you know where to go with them?

[one-armed dwarf]

The great runes are basically soft level ups, they can't really be something you can just replace on the field cause people who are super fast at inventory stuff could swap them out during battles or during exploration, to trivialise some mechanics. 

 

Anyway I just don't think that the great rune power buff is a particularly obtuse part of the game, considering just how obtuse the game can really be. Like these are games where things like enemy weakness are obscure unless you read lore, or do NPC questlines that themselves have hidden triggers that are like finding a needle in a haystack. Sort of the way they go with these things.

[OCH]

I wouldn't be surprised if I've missed several NPC quest triggers already. I saw one LP on YouTube (I listen to them in the background, while I play) and there was some blue lady they were talking to, that I haven't even seen.

 

It will be a while before the community at large finds them all, anyway.

[mfnick]

I didn’t even know enemies had specific weaknesses. & I more mean that’s something they could easily simplify without effecting anything but they don’t. The other areas they are obtuse in could be argued that they do it for actual reasons or that it makes the game better. Item management and use is just awkward for no reason.
 

1 hour ago, OCH said:

Do you know where to go with them?

Yea but I haven’t got any stats in the areas those abilities require so apart from the runes they’re pointless for me. 

[OCH]

I found the place to go (again, through exploring) before I knew what to do with it. That is where some of these bonfires are quite handy. A "remember this place for later" marker.

 

58 minutes ago, mfnick said:

I didn’t even know enemies had specific weaknesses. & I more mean that’s something they could easily simplify without effecting anything but they don’t. The other areas they are obtuse in could be argued that they do it for actual reasons or that it makes the game better. Item management and use is just awkward for no reason.

I recently heard that in an interview Miyazaki doesn't re-visit any of his former titles once they are released. That is where you might notice some of the negatives of a Souls game keep being repeated. Why things like Parry and Risposte seem to get worse with every game etc, etc

 

Meanwhile, 

Only a quick session today. I went back to a village that I only briefly skimmed through as I was map hunting a while back. Turns out the area had a boss that I completely missed the first time.😄

I haven't been south yet (or north, although that seems plot-wall blocked). But the west map is a really shitty area. Racing through with the horse, to see if I've missed stuff. Not really bothering to engage the enemies of this zone.

[one-armed dwarf]

Parry is pretty strong tbh, cause posture damage has become a bigger thing in each game since Bloodborne, until it became a main mechanic in Sekiro (and hidden main mechanic in Elden Ring, the posture bar is there just invisible). So if you're using lots of charged r2, jump r2 and parry on an enemy you've got the timings down it will all flow together pretty well

 

I may need to put more points in vigor, I think

 

(spoilers for the boss I was talking about)

 

Spoiler

 

 

I've taken this specific interaction, which maf would agree is some real bullshit, as a hint that I'm clearly not supposed to be hitting my head against this right now, or I need to respec

[OCH]

Really makes you think how much better this game could have been with actual Sekiro mobility. The bosses etc all seem to have it, regardless.

[one-armed dwarf]

I've lots of thoughts on the boss design, personally what I think happened here is less they made them like Sekiro (tho there is undoubtedly some DNA there) and more that the game is balanced around the use of mist summons. But the fights themselves are not necessarily designed around them. Damage and HP values, yes, in terms of mechanics they are still 1v1 fights

 

What I find is it has two extremes. Each boss can be an onslaught of almost fighting game style knowledge required to pass, or it can be very easy. The difference is whether or not you buff up and use summons. It hasnt' really suited my playstyle very well as more of a 'mid' player who just wants to quickly progress, have some cool duels and move on. Cause I dont find the fights as exciting with summons, but I'm sorta being pushed to my limit without

 

I think the middle ground evaporated with Elden Ring, and it's a reason why I bet you will hear one group say the game is extremely hard and others not understanding why people are saying that. Cause some people approach it from the RPG angle, use every tool to win. Others a bit more action, but Elden Ring is a case of being careful what you wish for imo

[OCH]

I have actually found a lot of utility to those Mist Summons. I have three of them at +3. The Wolves, in particular, are really good at crowd control. Also, I put a strength buff on my main broadsword (which is +10 now, with no cap in sight?). But, and I'm basically pointing to Marge here. I don't think a boss of a Souls game should have a greater move pool than the player. These kind of fights, I don't enjoy.

For example, I'm told the giants are good for rune farming. I don't think that is the case. Since they are a slog to put down. They have a few too many AOE heavy attacks to make them even enjoyable to fight. So I mostly go past them now.

[Maf]

32 minutes ago, one-armed dwarf said:

I've taken this specific interaction, which maf would agree is some real bullshit

 

 I got a pro tip

 

Spoiler

 

 

[one-armed dwarf]

I was saying cause of the OHKO grab

Anyway, I beat the game. I actually got to phase 2 in the secret boss, and have p1 down pretty well. So will wrap that up pretty soon, but decided to just rush through the gauntlet of bosses at the end by spamming the mimic summon. Theres a lot of stuff where they knowledge check you on some jumping over ground AOE stuff. Tbh, the boss rush makes it feel very lopsided and badly paced. But I bet some of the fights could be cool. For now tho, im happy to spam mimic

 

Putting rest of impressions in spoilers, there aren't actually any spoilers in it but the post is essay length so eh. one of those posts which crashes the server if it has punctuation

Spoiler

Just pretty mixed on it overall still. As time went on I sort of came around to what the game was trying to do, but ultimately the open world thing. It doesnt quite work imo. Couple of reasons, the pursuit of discovery still feels driven by finding new trinkets and loot in identikit dungeons, and the moment to moment journey is basically just ride on a horse. Sometimes they come up with genuinely surprising stuff in the open world, but it's a drop in the sea of possibility that BOTW had to offer, and given that Elden Ring seems to clearly acknowledge that game in a couple of ways the comparison kinda has to be made.

 

What I find I miss also is the simplicity of encounter design in old Dark Souls, but also unbelievably Bloodborne, a game which I thought was pretty complex. the huge focus on delay attacks, frame traps, alternating combo strings and bosses that read inputs when you heal and roll away are all super interesting concepts and executed very well, but they have turned the game into something thats more than I personally look for. Its not a flaw as such, but theres such a variety of bosses which have to be really studied hard in this game the same way a final boss or DLC boss in Bloodborne would be, except they are even harder if you dont want to spam a mimic summon.

 

I also miss the focus on obstacles and threats in the environments you go through. Whether its traps, or ledges or poison swamps or whatever. Theyre all here in some form but spread out in a less focused kinda way, only one dungeon really evokes that Dark Souls feeling of oppression for me. That particular dungeon was awesome, but it cemented in my view what is essential about Souls now. Not the boss fights or the lore, but the environments. The level design, that sense of progress and overcoming threats thrown your way. I dont think ER has it on the same level as those other games, I think this relates to how Blakey feels a bit about progressing through the open world with all the graces everywhere. Its not that kinda game, its an open world with really hard boss fights instead

 

The game this is being compared to a lot from what Ive seen is Dark Souls II, which I agree with. Tho I really like DSII, its a very uneven game with an equal amount of great and awful ideas that dont all play well together. For me, the good ideas in DSII were strong enough to make me fond of it, but with Elden Ring its the other way around. The big thesis statement of this game I think was to make a really deep Dark Souls which is also extremely open, with lots of emergent player driven possibility but also extremely approachable. They kinda achieve this, but the consequence of it is you end up with a very awkward progression that always felt terrible to me. I started off too weak trying to beat Margit way too low level at the start of the game. I beat him level 22 I think, which apparently is considered low level, and did the same with Godrick and proceeded to kinda bounce around the rest of the world getting absolutely wrecked by stuff in optional dungeons trying to buff up. Then the opposite happened, and I got way overpowered and instant broke everyones posture with one button because of the way I progressed through the world and stuff I did

 

because its so open, its hard to keep a check on how powerful you need to be. They use the openness and the power gating as a kind of invisible hand to guide you to other areas of the world. but it's like a form of negative reinforcement and it isnt as clear a guide as something like the environment mechanics in BOTW, where snow means that you have to go elsewhere to prepare and cook/get better gear

 

Theres things in it I like. Because its a deeper Souls game if you want it to be I am going to give some parts of it another go on NG+ (after I beat the secret boss on playthrough 1) and figure out some interesting challenges. Its got the most substantial world and background lore any of these games have ever had. At the same time, I miss the strange dark ambiguity of the stories in Souls and Bloodborne. They tell you a lot of stuff in this, while in those old games they leave some stuff in suspense a bit. As I got to the end I kinda felt the collision of styles with GRRM and Miyazaki became more obvious, theres something strange about the representations of some of these characters in a world thats supposed to be bleak dark, but it might just be me who feels that way. Its a really interesting idea for a collaboration though and I think it was a great idea to have a fantasy writer provide a backdrop to build a narrative on top of. One of the coolest collabs in gaming in a long time, even if its a little hard to see exactly what GRRM provides due to the tip of the iceberg approach FROM have for their story telling

 

So its good and I came around on it as I went on, but its firmly BB>DS1>DS2>DS3=Elden Ring for me I think.  As the hype cycle dies down a bit I wonder if therell be a cooling off on how highly rated it is imo. Theres ups and downs here and the reviewers probably havent seen the 2nd half of the game (they only had a week to play it, its physically impossible without getting ill)

[radiofloyd]

How long was your play time?