RoboticMonk3y Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 Good post sly. You're absolutely right. I guess by that point in progression the game already had it's hooks in me... Oh, I died? I guess that's me being too greedy or not paying attention... I remember that boulder and lightning dodging section being a right pain in the pants. I ended up sprinting through... Don't forget that if you're taking a fuckton of damage, you may well want to check out your armour.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendo Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 I’m not gonna do the whole quote bits and comment on them, as it looks a mess, but to your points: You said it takes zero skill but then a few sentences down say when you figure out where to go. It is a puzzle of working out where you have to go, which is a skill you acquire after a while. You can say it’s banging your head against it, but there is environmental clues to help you. The paragraph on Old Yharnam, that sounds like you’re actually saying it’s clever design not bad design. There’s a lot of options in that area - for example, the gunner can become a friendly NPC and you don’t have to kill him. You said about enough to make it fun. It’s not meant to be fun! It’s meant to be a challenge to overcome. Fun is going back to the early levels with your over-powered bad self and ripping the shit out of them. I sincerely disagree with you on the quality of design. It can be a slog at times but it’s always throwing something new at you or a variation on something you had before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sly Reflex Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 Like, I honestly have no idea why they tried to do the Blighttown thing again. Everyone I know that played Souls hated that area. Why do it again? It's silly.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sly Reflex Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 11 minutes ago, Hendo said: The paragraph on Old Yharnam, that sounds like you’re actually saying it’s clever design not bad design. It is clever design. That's what I'm saying. That part of the game was so fucking smart. I was using that part as an example of good design over the shitey design, which were the other paragraphs. I'm sorry if that was unclear. That part is leagues ahead of the nightmare and Unseen parts. Figuring out where to go isn't a puzzle. It's trail and error. If I threw you in a room full of shit and only one of the several exits was the way out, you'd be pretty pissed off that you had to wade through shit to find your way to the one you needed to escape. The nightmare stuff is just bad. Genuinely bad. If it was a case of dealing with mobs and trying all the dead ends it'd have been fine, but the added "We're going to poison you so you have to run about constantly" is just a timer. You know, those things a lot of people complain about it games, because being on the clock is shit. 18 minutes ago, Hendo said: You said about enough to make it fun. It’s not meant to be fun! It’s meant to be a challenge to overcome. You do know games are meant to be fun? If I wanted a challenge I'd go to the gym or grind scales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendo Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 Killed the beggar in Forbidden Woods. Last time I sent him to the Cathedral Ward which is maybe not the best choice. He kills NPC’s you’ve already sent there. So this time I killed him in the cheesiest manner possible, sticking in a corridor that he couldn’t get through, but could still attack me when I went in to attack. Opened up the shortcut to the way to the boss so will probably call in help for those bastards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sly Reflex Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 There's a beggar in the woods? I didn't find him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendo Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 It’s by one of the two elevators. He’s scrambling on the floor. I think right outside the building with the big cogs and gears in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendo Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 That's the Shadow of Yharnam down. I called for help but no-one arrived and then I found two NPC summons so we went in and smashed faces. Then moved onto the next area and straight away I got a notice that someone had joined. "Steven" which is a great name for a hunter. I couldn't figure out where he was and then got the message that he died. Lasted all of about 10 seconds, poor bastard. Though the route guide I'm using suggests the castle as the next location. I've already fucked up the proper ending anyway, as I killed an NPC before killing Rom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duck Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 22 hours ago, Sly Reflex said: You do know games are meant to be fun? If I wanted a challenge I'd go to the gym or grind scales. This makes me think of that Lars Von Trier quote - "Films should be like a stone in your shoe." Games/media doesn't have to "fun" for you to like/enjoy them. I don't want to spoiler where you are in the game but that section in Bloodborne has more meaning story/progression - wise for doing that stuff, to me anyway. Blight town was horrible but that section also worked in making me feel like i was the sewers/pits/hell of the castle. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendo Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Went back to the opening levels as there was one section I know I didn’t go in (the drop into the sewer, next to the wolves on the bridge) and found items in other sections that I swear I picked up the first time. Also i’ve picked up some pretty useful runes. One that ups your frenzy resistance, one that ups your poison resistance, raises stamina, raises HP, blood vials by 3, visceral attacks restore HP, etc. Add those resistance runes while swapping clothes for more poison/frenzy resistant ones and those later sections aren’t quite as bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendo Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Got to the castle, forgot how fucking powerful those enemies patrolling the start are. Used 21 health vials but finally made my way to unlock the shortcut. Level 62 now, still haven’t put any points into anything other than health, stamina and strength, which might be a mistake, but hey ho. Axe is level 7 and also carrying a threaded cane as backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendo Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Might have met my match with the boss in the castle. Absolute cunt of a boss, though I’ve lasted longer than those that came in to help me. One guy died upon immediately walking in. Will probably grind or do some other sections first. Luckily there’s two shortcuts so from the lamp to the boss it takes about a minute of running past enemies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sly Reflex Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 16 hours ago, Duck said: This makes me think of that Lars Von Trier quote - "Films should be like a stone in your shoe." Games/media doesn't have to "fun" for you to like/enjoy them. I don't want to spoiler where you are in the game but that section in Bloodborne has more meaning story/progression - wise for doing that stuff, to me anyway. Blight town was horrible but that section also worked in making me feel like i was the sewers/pits/hell of the castle. Honestly I don't think this floats. Not for games anyway. With other media you're passive, with games you'e actively taking part and putting mechanics in "to be a stone in your shoe", making the game worse to make a point is dumb. Not everything by well respected people is fantastic, they can output garbage as well. The problem is that some people will try and interpret that misstep as intended genius. It's not, it's a misstep, it's shite. There's no hidden messages. There's no underlying context to it. It's just rubbish. They tried something different and the megafans or artsy fartsy folk make excuses for it. I know that it's a completely different game, but it sort of reminds me of Super Meat Boy. That game is irritating, infuriating, it's like something stuck between your teeth. It gradually gets harder and harder to the point of taking the piss, but despite that it never feels unfair because you are in complete control of your destiny. Does that game have off parts? Yeah, the boss parts are a bit cock, but there's such a small fraction of the game it's hard to remember them. It's gotten to a point with the current areas in Bloodborne that I'm more hesitant on putting it on. It's not giving me the "I must conquer this!" feeling like I was having before. It feels like it's beginning to waste my time. For a game to make a player feel that is bad. It feels like it's treading water when it should be racing towards the end. I'm never ever going to be able to convince the people otherwise that the parts I'm picking out are shit. Same as I'll never be able to convince someone who adores Bioshock that that game is quite bad, or that the TLoU or Uncharted games, despite being immaculately presented are unsatisfactory to play. And that's fine. Everyone looks for something different within the entertainment they consume and puts their own spin on it whether it's good or not depending on their perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendo Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Almost like people have different tastes? It’s maybe not the wisest argument to change someone’s mind on a game that you have the correct view and they are wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sly Reflex Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 If you read back I have said a few times that this game is aces. It's just those parts that are pants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendo Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 I was more talking about the other games you mentioned, to be honest. If you've decided to throw in the towel, this is the best video on the story you'll find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sly Reflex Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 I said nothing about throwing the towel in. I've come this far, I might as well push through. I've hope the rest of the game will pick up. Went through the Forbidden Forest looking for that NPC and couldn't find him. Found some extra areas I managed to miss first time around though, you can get right up into the top of the windmill. I also unlocked the lift that's in the windmill itself, although I don't really see the point in it unless it's an even quicker way to the boss. Found a big fuck off cannon you can equip. I don't know how practical that would be, but I find the idea of hitting someone with a cannon ball point blank hilarious. The points requirement makes it a bit of a weird fit though, like you have to have all that strength to just equip it but also the bloodtinge to get it levelled up. I don't know if it could be amazing or just a novelty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Middle_Class_Hero Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 From what I can remember the cannon packs one hell of a punch, but is quite impractical due to it using 10 (?!!) quick silver bullets per shot (so effectively you only get two/three shots with it). Been a while since I’ve played Bloodborne though, so I’m possibly (nay probably) talking bollocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DisturbedSwan Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 5 hours ago, Sly Reflex said: It's gotten to a point with the current areas in Bloodborne that I'm more hesitant on putting it on. It's not giving me the "I must conquer this!" feeling like I was having before. It feels like it's beginning to waste my time. For a game to make a player feel that is bad. It feels like it's treading water when it should be racing towards the end. This is exactly how it wants to make you feel. Most games when you’re near the end make you feel like an unstoppable God with numerous upgrades, max health, stamina and/or ammunition. With Soulsborne games they want to continuinally knock you down a peg, keep you thinking, adapting and reevaluating your tactics and solutions to potential puzzles or problems. Git gud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendo Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 I mean, I wouldn’t put it quite as blunt as that, but yeah, he’s got the right idea. Regarding Alfred’s questline: Now you’ve given him the summons, go back to the queen’s chamber in the castle to see what he’s done with it. Talk to him, inspect the queen, etc. Then go back to where you first met him and see what you find there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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