DOOM: The Dark Ages

[one-armed dwarf]

That could mean anything tbh, Eternal has super linear levels yet classic Doom is quite open as you hunt down key cards and stuff 

 

Full on open world would be shit tho I agree

[one-armed dwarf]

Launch date might have leaked apparently, May 2025.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/doom-the-dark-ages-releasing-on-may-15-2025.1088169/

 

Shit, I don't have enough time to beat ultra nightmare on eternal

 

Really curious to see the gameplay of it, which I assume is tomorrow. People are speculating that DoomGuy can't jump in this one which will be so weird if true. But then again they said they want to evoke classic Doom. 

[mfnick]

I’m so worried about this one. I’m sure it’ll be successful & I bet the majority will love it but everything I’m hearing is moving well away from Eternal. I loved the platforming section in that, thought they felt great and gave a nice break from the exhausting (in a good way) combat areas. 

[one-armed dwarf]

I assume it's going to be a modern spin on the whole key-gated design of the old ones. They had that a tiny bit in the last two but the levels are still pretty narrow and directed, puncutated by big combat arenas with lots of verticality. But still straight forward.

 

I could see the level design being a lot stronger but the combat being a bit more rote and Sekiro-esque in its interaction. The trailer has these green flashes which the other games use to tell the player stuff, in this case I'm guessing for counter-attacks/parries like the Maurader in Eternal

 

My current prediction anyway

[one-armed dwarf]

Other than being able to jump, this does look like the game we were predicting a bit in here I think. One of the most interesting things tho, it has a built in turbo mode. You can speed the game up with a difficulty slider. That is really cool, and uh I think it needs it lol (6:28)

 

 

In fact the more I look at it the more I think it could be a cool game in an extremely retro kind of way that could complement the other two interestingly. It did sort of feel like they were running out of ideas in Eternal's second DLC tbh

[Nag]

This is another franchise I've very little connection with... played 2016 and Eternal but that's it... and I preferred 2016.

 

If the combat is simplified compared to Eternal I'll be fairly happy with that.

[Maf]

I just don’t think I like Doom very much. Whether you’re a fighter jet or an iron tank, it just looks boring 

[one-armed dwarf]

I should respect different opinions but the description of Eternal's fighter jet combat as boring has me feeling mighty intolerant 😧

 

Spoiler

 

[mfnick]

It looks slooooowwww. Like has been said though there’s a slider on increase I at least but is the game meant to be played like that? 
 

Im going to really miss the glory kill animations too. Those melee attacks look nowhere near as satisfying and take longer - some taking 3 hits?! 

 

However, there’s a parry! That’s cool! 
 

Very much looking forward to trying it still. No way this is going to hit like Eternal for me from this look.  

[one-armed dwarf]

When they cross reference it with old school Doom gameplay with the dancing between projectiles I sort of respect the vision, they really want to make a game like that. Old DOOM can also be intense if you play it with the shift key held down and on nightmare. It's even more extreme than Eternal, if not as vertical.

 

But I think no matter what, you have to take into account that this is fairly limited and unskilled gameplay they are showing off. Compare a Doom Eternal Ultra Nightmare player to an E3 player and it's like night and day and I think the progression of the skill curve between those (aka the average player, the rest of us) can be much more interesting than this rather boring and slow demonstration

 

That said I am still not going to expect this to be even a quarter as exhilarating as Doom Eternal in the flow state, which IMO is one of the greatest FPS action games ever made and potentially. Single player wise anyway

 

Also potentially the greatest action game of the previous generation... that's what I think now

 

I wonder if this will have monster closets like old DOOM as well. That shit is like super unfair, but I also kinda like that it's so unfair

[one-armed dwarf]

Interestingly this is another game with mandatory RT, like Indiana Jones. So we're finally getting to that point now where theyre just supporting the next gen lighting methods.

 

The idea is it should save dev time eventually cause they don't have to prebake everything. Also this might be a game where you actually notice the RT, unlike in Eternal, cause the gameplay is slow now lol

[DANGERMAN]

I think this looks great, except for the mech and dragon. I'm not writing off those bits, but that's not Doom to me, not that Eternal was necessarily, but it's a bit gimmicky. That being said, I'm buying this day one 

[one-armed dwarf]

One game that did the big Kaiju stuff pretty well was FFXVI I thought, and it was cause they gave you a decent subset of Clive's skills during his big monster battles. So the muscle memory of one converts to the other, and gives a different spin on it. It's a million times better than how Bayonetta 3 does it, where you just do a super basic and boring fight

 

If the big mech battles can find a way to do that with the Dark Ages skills that would work well

[one-armed dwarf]

DF talk in a fairly interesting way about the game here. Apparently one of the reasons why 2016 and Eternal are based on arena style combat is cause of CPU limitations. They have to contain it all in smallish areas. But now cause Dark Ages is a new gen game you can corral enemies across large areas, and way more of them. 

 

So next gen AI for Doom, in a way that's more reminiscent of the 90s one. Cool stuff

 

 

[one-armed dwarf]

There's info out on the game in EDGE. I haven't read it yet but there's this summary I saw on here: https://www.resetera.com/threads/edge-magazine-doom-the-dark-ages-information-level-length-combat-no-double-jump-putting-a-bigger-focus-on-story-and-more.1116162/#post-136131612

 

Quote

Inspiration

• The original pitch and prototype for the game was inspired by the Batman Year One and The Dark Knight comic books that return Batman to the roots of the character

The Shield

• The shield saw has a lot of utility yet is very simple with only two inputs (taking feedback from DOOM Eternal having too many inputs)
• The shield saw can be thrown "in the style of Captain America" by squeezing the left bumper
• The shield saw can also be used to block with the left trigger
• When thrown, the shield produces different effects based on the material it's striking. For example, if it hits flesh, the blade will dig in and spin. If it hits a plasma shield, it will explode causing an electrical blast before ricocheting around the area.
• The shield can also be used for exploration and puzzles like Kratos multi-purpose ice axe in God of War. For example, you can throw the shield to shatter links to reveal hidden areas on the map, or the shield can be lodged inside machinery to activate it, or you can stick it in a marked prop to leap across to it.
• Holding block acts as a lock-on feature, attaching to enemies and objects in front of you.
• There is no double jump or dash in the game. Instead, you have a shield bash.
• Hit the right trigger while locked on to perform a shield bash, which will send you rocketing towards the target.

Melee Options

• Melee uses are charged via successful parries and in turn also refill your ammo
• There are three melee options — the gauntlet, the flail and the mace.
• The gauntlet is the quickest and weakest melee weapon, delivering a "punch, punch, kick combo" and softens the foe up for a heavy boot.
• The flail takes longer to charge but strikes hard and has better reach, and adds fire to its victims. The burning status also coughs up a drip feed of armor shards.
• The mace is the biggest hitter, a great sledgehammer of an attack that takes time to charge and cool down but tops up all resources as well as cratering whatever it strikes.

The Levels and the Length

• DOOM: The Dark Ages features the largest spaces ever in a DOOM game, the levels are "more of a sandbox".
• There are open areas ripe for exploration as well as grand battles, so you might spend a lot of time tracking down every path and tracking resources and secrets.
• If you're scared of how big the levels are, don't be. The developers understand if you don't want to spend hours playing a single DOOM level. So they've ensured you can expect each level to take only 1 hour to complete following the main path. If you're someone who does want to spend the time, completionists can certainly extend that time if they want to find all the secrets.
• Each level is broken into acts. You might start in a closed dungeon-like space in the first half of the level then we open it up to be more of an open sandbox in the second half of the level. There's a good amount of variety.
• Some levels have sections plant you on the back of a cybernetic dragon and others put you on the cockpit of an "Atlan", a skyscraper-sized mech. These sections are called "pace breakers" and break up the pace of the game when needed.
• The developers have wanted to put Atlan mechs in the games for 8 years.

The Story

• The story is a pillar of DOOM: The Dark Ages.
• In previous games, such as DOOM 2016 and DOOM Eternal, the story and lore was tucked away in optional text logs.
• In The Dark Ages, we bring story to the forefront, with a greater focus on cutscenes filled with important characters, world building and plot.
• "We had data that shows that people who played DOOM Eternal watched all of the cutscenes, which shows that people want to see a story play out with all the action."
• The developers can't wait for you to experience the story when DOOM: The Dark Ages launches on May 15, 2025.

 

Don't know anything about that Batman comic but reading between the lines I guess it's suggesting gritty origin story. Reading here it sounds a lot like they're doing a first person version of those new God of War games or something, whatever way they describe the flow of combat and exploration just reminds me of this.

 

I've no idea what way this will land with me, it sounds good but the combat as shown and described looks really boring but there's potential for it to be a lot deeper I suppose. Parry is the lynchpin of the combat and resource economy, it recharges melee and ammo, and the melee recharges armour and things like that. So you have to parry. I'm burned out on the centrality of parry mechanics in modern action games, but on the other hand if this game has a 'defensive offense' where you can 'parry' while attacking at the same time and aren't just doing slow, boring shield parrys all day which brings all combat to a standstill, well that could be interesting

 

Basically hoping it's not like Sekiro 😪 maybe more like Metal Gear Rising 🎸 🤖

[one-armed dwarf]

 

This looks really good. I still think it will be my least favorite of the three (or second least favorite, as I think 2016 wouldn't hold up if I went back to it) but it looks complicated enough and has a lot of that combat loop crunchyiness that Eternal has

It just doesn't have its mobility I suppose, but the projectile density and threats may yet make up for some of that. It's going to be really hard to make a judgement until we can see it on Nightmare with experienced play cause this is clearly on a pretty easy difficulty so you really have to extrapolate what it might look like on the sweaty modes. Eternal enemies on nightmare felt faster and more aggressive and you couldn't just blindly glory kill stuff without getting punished for it, so I imagine some of the passive looking enemy behaviours here wont' be as much a thing on these modes

 

My biggest concern remains not so much the lack of jumping and aerial combat but the huge focus on parrying. I find parry has become a really limiting gameplay mechanic in lots of games and it makes interactions feel really linear, Sekiro sucks for having that influence on so much stuff

[mfnick]

That’s a lot of empty space to strafe around… 🥱 

[one-armed dwarf]

I would put that on the player more than the game, I think the combat will emphasise aggressive defense and not just strafing all the time. If someone plays like that it may just be a skill issue.

 

We need some harder mode gameplay though to really know. I would be shocked tho if the shield toss doesn't have a skill tree buff which turns it into a Nero snatch grab in certain contexts. You don't just give people the meat hook in Eternal and then take it away

[mfnick]

I’m more disappointed in the bland large open space than I am in how the person is playing. Needs a lot more enemies and environmental variety to fill that space. 
 

They’ve been saying how they’re going more open world with this which has been worrying me and that gameplay is just confirming my fears. 

[one-armed dwarf]

I don't remember them saying it's an open world, I feel they just said the levels are more open. Eternal's levels are super linear, 2016 mildly more open than that but not much. Doom 3 was super closed in as well, but classic Doom had quite maze-like levels filled with lots of secrets. Which is the reason why secrets are a thing in the new ones but exploring for them is pretty underwhelming cause of how linear they are

 

Here's how some of those maps look in wireframe

https://www.classicdoom.com/maps/d1maps/d1.htm

 

to be honest tho I'm playing devil's advocate a bit with this game cause it's so clearly not going to be anywhere near as good as Eternal was, it's so far from that, so I'm trying to look at the glass half full on some of these features but they will never top Eternal's action because it has nothing in it to replace its momentum and looks much more stop-start (which is why I hate the overreliance on parry mechanics in modern action). It's just one of the best of all time