Marvel Cinematic Universe

[DisturbedSwan]

Yes.

Also, apologies to @one-armed dwarf, bit your head off a bit in that last post for no reason.

[one-armed dwarf]

btw, this film is out now on streaming platforms. Think you have to buy it tho

 

I got it in 4k hdr on apple, cause im posh

[Maf]

Oh, is it out now? That was quick. I will have a look see if I can get it anywhere on Friday 

[Maf]

Ms Marvel trailer

 

 

Looks really good.

Also that end shot

 

Spoiler

 
 

Nice

[one-armed dwarf]

I watched Spidey, thought it was a weirdly flabby movie. wasn't bad but felt sort of like the MGS4 of all the spiderman movies.

 

Anyway not sure I get the hype, but it probably is one where you get what you put into it, if you've seen the gen 2 spiderman films. Which I haven't. Didn't really grab me like infinity war did

 

tbh, the main thing I get out of any superhero film is whether or not the villain(s) are good, and that's where I was hoping this would deliver, but it did not. Anyway, that's just my opinion

 

Spoiler

also a weirdly downer ending that has 'plot contrivance to disentangle ourselves from this property' written all over it. 

 

edit I just want to add tho, i did enjoy the interactions between the spideys and thought it was super heartfelt and interesting, but it felt like they tried to cram in a lot in a short amount of time. The stuff with Garfield's spidey being like 'man, I feel so lame I only fought a russian rhino' or something like that, also speaking to the popular reception of that guy's tenure as the character. Who then goes on to be the most entertaining of the three in the film. Cool stuff. but ended up being a relatively small part of the movie all told, given how long it is. I think it needed to get to that stuff much faster than it did

 

[OCH]

@Maf How/where to see Spidey

[Maf]

Ooh, only £10. I'll buy that tomorrow, why not. Thanks.

 

Told you it would only take 3-4 months for this movie to come out. Once a movie has left the cinema they come out so fast these days. I knew the wait would be like no time

[OCH]

The real wait would be for those looking to Disney+ for it, I imagine.

[Maf]

I stayed up too late watching No Way Home 

 

Pffffffft it's going to take me a while too really digest and mull over everything that happens and what things mean in this movie. Overall I think it's a catastrophically stupid story for the sake of delivering fan service, some earned some not. Celebration, some hits some doesn't. And character. More than anything this film is about hammering home what MCU Spider-Man is about and getting him there. At the very end of this movie my thought was wow what an amazing retcon. Brand New Day indeed

 

I think it's easy enough to talk about the first half of the movie without spoilers. It's all in the trailers, it's all set up. It's super fast moving but nothing mega or amazing happens until the second half. Without saying too much, this is where the movie takes a turn. Things start to mean something. The film gets rough and dark in a way no Spider-Man film has been before. I don't know if I'm tired or need a rewatch because this is as beaten up as Spider-Man has ever got on screen, what I really wanted to see, and yet it still missed the mark for me by a beat. It was working. But it wasn't working enough. 

 

Spoiler time I'm just going to let a bunch of thoughts roll I'll try catch the typos 

 

Spoiler

It's when all 3 Spider-Man say the line "With great power MUST ALSO COME great responsibility" to each other (They actually got the quote right for once lol). That's the point. That's how Spider-Man becomes Spider-Man. Just it happens differently in the MCU. For Spider 2 and 3 they got powers, fucked around, found out, and tragedy made them understand. Spider 1 has had tragedy but never heard the line. Despite being a superhero and part of the Avengers and whatever, he's not really been Spider-Man. All the Stark suits, all the Avenger stuff, all the tech. All the criticisms that some fans had of MCU Spider-Man feels addressed in this film through this idea of he hasn't heard the line, so he's not Spider-Man yet.

 

It doesn't make any sense, like a lot of the film, but it's trying to say that this is what Spider-Man is, and he can't begin until it's spoken. Narratively the retcon is no one remembers him so he can be the Spider-Man you know him to be. A loner, a young guy, secret identity, everyone against him, the tech's gone he's making his costume out of a fucking sowing machine. But the meta retcon is now he is Spider-Man. This film is about getting him where he needs to be. He has finally arrived. 

 

Despite the fact that Homecoming was all about him being Spider-Man and not needing the suit. But then Far From Home was about living up to Stark's legacy. And now they are u-turning again. I respect it because I want it. Watching him swing through New York, in the best ever movie Spider-Man suit. I like what they're going for with this new beginning and I want a new beginning for this Spidey so I like it. 

 

The biggest surprise for me was that everyone forgot who Peter Parker is. That's weird. In the One More Day/Brand New Day/OMIT comic storylines they cast a spell so everyone forgets Peter is Spider-Man. But they remember Peter exists. I actually find this kind of troubling. After losing Aunt May I don't want him to be totally alone. I think he will absolutely make connections with MJ and Ned again. But I wonder how they will set up his life going forward. 

 

Aunt May's death is some of the best acting in the movie. There are 3 really strong actors in this film. But Marissa Tomei really bought it for that scene and she almost stole the whole movie. The most dramatic scene in the film and it's her that makes it and carries it, if you ask me. Dafoe is so much better in this film than he is in the original. In Spider-Man 1 he is super cartoon-y, 60's comic book villain. Here you really see modern, twisted, just dangerous Joker-esq Green Goblin. I loved it. Again story wise what he wants I don't really know but he's a complete, raging psycho. They even let Dafoe use his face and gave him purple clothes, rags and a hood like the comic. I kind of think he the best part of the film. 

 

Toby Maguire don't got it at all. He looks weird, he looks out of place. There are certain banter-y scenes where the other guys carry him through but for the most part I kept watching him and being like oh, Toby. You just not got it my guy. Any conversations about who the best Peter Parker/Spider-Man is dead. You can't say it's Maguire no more. 

 

The last thing I have to say for now is I really liked that Spider-Man beats his bad guys by outsmarting them (Except for Goblin, I guess). But every other opponent loses to his mind not his powers. Which is true Spider-Man. Nearly all his enemies are stronger than him. Doc Ock, Scorpion, Venom, Carnage, Electro, etc. And he beats them by outthinking them. Even Doctor Strange lost to math. Spidey's more of a nerd than superhero at heart. Even though nearly all the bad guys in this film are scientists that fell in to something, they're not smarter than Peter Parker. Especially when there's 3 of them. I really liked that.

 

 

And about a million more thoughts besides but it's 4:15 am and I've forgot them all. Overall, I really liked this movie. I will need to think on it a bit more and watch it again at some point. I thought this film wanted me to cry with it at points but it didn't resonate hard enough. I think the film wanted me to burst with fan service glee at some points which I did like but not as much as I thought. On a first viewing it's good. I enjoyed the film, but I can't say I loved it or anything. 

 

The best 3 Spider-Man movies are still

 

1) Spider-Verse

2) Homecoming

3) Spider-Man 2 

[DisturbedSwan]

Fuck man, I'm so bummed you didn't love it  

 

I would've liked to see what you thought of it if you didn't know the big spoilers beforehand.

[one-armed dwarf]

You know tho,

 

Spoiler

on spoilers, the trailers were far worse for it by showing beyond a shadow of a doubt that the baddies go back to being baddies.

 

Not for even a moment did you imagine Jamie Foxx was going to be a cool guy with all the technology cure stuff. It's a shame they seem to have no choice but to show the big set piece stuff in trailers, and not leave that stuff hidden a bit. It's not like they were short of stuff to put in with all the Inception multiverse shit

 

Anyway i still contend that there's no way to avoid the other spoilers this far out, unless you're particularly good at filtering a ton of discussion out like that. Those actors have been in interviews and promo material, Garfield and Toby really want people to know they were in the biggest film of the year. Andrew Garfield is an oscar nominated actor this year so he especially wants that. The surprise was really only for the day 1 people, and tbqh that's a privilege with how covid was back then.

 

I also thought Toby was disappointing in this, he seemed kinda checked out, while Garfield was a very cool dude. But apparently his movies are sux, too bad. Maybe they will consider making another one with him in it though.

 

[Maf]

There’s only one thing in the movie I think would have been better if I hadn’t of known.

 

Spoiler

Aunt May dying

But there wasn’t anything else plot wise that would have surprised me anyway. The new status quo for Peter at the end of the movie surprised me, but I didn’t know that going in. 
 

Spoiler

I don’t think Toby was checked out I just don’t think he can do it. The only moments I really liked him was when Andrew asks him if he’s got a suit and he pulls his shirt to reveal it. Nice. Classic. And the talk and surprise around his organic webbing was fun.

 

But when he trying to give Garfield the pep talk fell flat. The whole back cracking scene fell flat. Also not to throw stones while living in a single glazed house but he looks bad. He looks so old it was pulling me out of the film.

 

I was thinking this morning, and I don’t know if this was intentional or I’m reading in to it. But Garfield is basically the “failed” Spider-Man. He got bitter, never found his MJ or partner, stopped pulling his punches, went down a darker path. Which I assume means he has been killing people. Jointly he’s the only Spider-Man with a cancelled franchise and who talked shit about being Spider-Man after his 2nd film. I dunno if I’m reading too much in to that but it’s kind of like he is the failed Spider-Man

 

[one-armed dwarf]

In my spoiler block on the 2nd previous post I had the same read, despite not seeing those films.

[Maf]

Spoiler

I think it’s just a fan idea but someone said that Garfield and Venom should exist in the same universe. Which there isn’t a reason that couldn’t happen? With him saying he wants to fight an Alien, and Venom being in the post credit scene (Which was really funny). Why not. I could see that. 

 

[OCH]

Looking up the spoilers for these things does ruin the experience. I remember being all excited for Batman Forever, back when that came out (I was 11y/o). I watched every behind the scenes program. Read through every feature article, looked through the action figures and when the film came out.. I'd basically seen it all. There were no surprises, nothing I didn't already know. 

 

It is one of the reasons, I did stress you should have watched the film in the initial timeframe and NOT looked into it, beforehand. "Spoilers are everywhere" is no excuse. Because you don't have to watch/read them.

 

Maguire looks old, because he is and portrayed to be. He is supposed to have remained active since Spider-Man 3. Garfield was the one with the most positive fan reception, following this film. Considered scene stealing in some reviews.

Holland, regarding the ending, that too was met with positive feedback. Especially from all the hardcore Spidey fans that resented him being bound to the Avengers. Now he isn't.

 

 

 

[one-armed dwarf]

I feel like my point here gets missed a bit, this is what I mean

 

Spoiler

 

 

How do you dodge stuff like that? Or know to miss a particular actor's interview who you don't know is in the film or not? I saw a similar image when I googled how to buy the film. It's now a major way the film is being marketed, this particular spoiler. Even to people who aren't specifically looking in the film's direction, they might want to instead hear about a different film this actor is in and hear about this instead. Like, the actors involved probably dont want their involvement a secret at this point, for career purposes. I mean why would they

 

Now to be clear, I'm not gonna go out of my way to spoil shit for people if I think they dont appreciate it. In the Elden Ring thread cause I'm so far ahead of other people I'm going out of my way to not even mention boss names or locations until I see other people mention them. I'm not someone who tries to be a dick about things like this, even if the other impression might be what people have. I think it's a very different situation though

 

edit if the point here is 'you should have gone seen in the cinema', well not everyone's situation is going to be the same there, risk evaluation wise. It's different now, we know more about omicron. Back then, we didn't

[Maf]

There’s a big difference between knowing what happens and watching it happen. We all know there’s a big battle at the end with Spidey vs 3 bad guys and being a superhero movie guess who wins at the end. But that can’t stop the fun of watching it unfold. 
 

As I said earlier I think there’s only one big plot point that I would have been better off not knowing. But at the same time. I still didn’t realise it was going going to happen until just before it did, and knowing isn’t what detracted from the drama of it. I think this story is either not told as good as it could be, or has too many things going on perhaps, or the logic and set ups are too loose for moments to feel substantial. Because there was loads of things in the film - plot points, jokes, surprises, fight sequences, etc, that just did not land like I would have hoped. 
 

Maybe I’ll feel different about it on a second viewing. But watching it this morning the film was not affecting me the way I think it’s meant too. 
 

I’ll say it’s small but Spider 3 has my fav joke in the movie when Lizard pounces on him and he says “Hey, Doctor Conners”. The delivery was so good. 
 

I hope they do continue with Holland as Spider-Man and in the MCU going forward because I think we’re finally at a place where I can get the thing I wanted from the Spider-Man deal all those years ago. Spidey can exist within the universe without having it shoehorned in to every aspect of his life. Homecoming is still the best film of this trilogy because it’s the smallest, most understandable one. Now we have a chance to get back to that

 

Spoiler

Except for the fact he doesn’t fucking no a single person on the world. What happened to his government record, his school history, his social security number, his personal data? Is that all gone too, how does that work lol? Kind of feels like a step too far. They only had to put his identity back in the bottle not remove his entire existence. Although it’s a good sacrifice, I suppose. 
 

On the one hand I find that extremely relatable. Which is why it made me sad at the end. I like Peter because in ways he’s like me but a wish fulfilled version. When it’s reflected more back at me directly it’s like that’s depressing. It’s what made me stop watching Joker I’m already living this, man, I can’t deal with it. 
 

I want sadness in Spider-Man stories but with a sense of uplift to it. I can’t have friends but this guy can. I get to see and have fun with it through Spider-Man. But now he’s had that taken away too. It’s like ok a step too far.

@one-armed dwarf lol

[OCH]

1 hour ago, one-armed dwarf said:

edit if the point here is 'you should have gone seen in the cinema'

No, the point was to see the film before looking stuff up.

 

There is usually a sweet spot in between initial release and full spoiler territory. Upto a month or so, normally. The main finale spoiler for No Time To Die, for example, was not openly discussed for weeks.

As for this film: Maguire was only rumoured to be in it. Garfield outright denied he'd even been asked. That was the reality then. As soon as the peak cinema release window fades, that's when interviews pop up and marketing pics drop. 

[one-armed dwarf]

People could have health conditions that we don't know or any other sort of situation  that make things like that unviable.

 

Some things are more important than spoilers

 

Dunno if that applies to anyone here, but just stating it

[Maryokutai]

59 minutes ago, OCH said:

As soon as the peak cinema release window fades, that's when interviews pop up and marketing pics drop. 

 

It doesn't work like that anymore, at least for big hype magnets like MCU stuff. You either watch it on the very first screening or you wake up to the entire internet having the spoilers as decorations hanging around.

 

I don't have an MCU footprint on the web. I don't watch their trailers (except for that She-Hulk teaser from forever ago), don't look up specific things, don't have an account linked to Disney+ or whatever but I still had Spider-Man cast members looking at me from all directions the two weeks or so after the movie came out. If it's older than 24 hours, just go ham with the spoilers. Whoever hasn't seen it by then isn't really interested anyway, surely.