Achievement Thoughts

[HandsomeDead]

I tried to look for a thread that already contains this kind of discussion but I can't seem to find one, so I'm starting one.

Now, while I don't think I am a fan of them, I have hunted for them; and will probably continue to hunt for them in the future. I hate myself for it. I treat it like wanking. It's an exercise I do to feel good about myself for a moment, before realising the pathetic pointlessness of it.

But less of that!

But what I want to talk about is the effect they actually have on you. It became a kinda thing on the internet when Adam Sessler reviewed God of War: Ascension, recently (I would just link it but I don't know how):

To see what I'm getting at watch it from 6:50 onwards.

Now I know that some disregard this criticism for a few reasons. The main one being that he took the Trophy out of context, which he did (the Trophy doesn't refer to beating up a female mythological creature (or Furies) but another male character choosing to side with Kratos over the other Furies) , but it doesn't stop the effect it might have on some people. due to the timing and the language of the Trophy.

You also have the context of God of War being a very fratboy series these days so that kind of language may be for them, and not the liberal game critics. They are just playing to their audience.

But it got me thinking, unfortunately. Before, I didn't like achievements because they drew attention from having in-game rewards, like all that stuff in Goldeneye. Games don't have secrets that alter the game; they just tie everything up to some aggregate that means nothing, really. I miss unlocking things for being awesome, but now you just get numbers or Trophies. It's just not as good (though I still do it, 'cos I'm as susceptible as everyone else to this shit) .

But back to my point! Have Achievements/Trophies/Etc ever fucked up a moment in a game for you?

They really haven't for me until recently. But with this Sessler guy drawing attention to language used in them I have become more aware.

A lot of games, if not most, use fourth wall breaking techniques to present the Achievement/Trophy and I wonder if it does the game justice.

Like, I've been playing God of War, the original, on the PS3, with its newly implemented Trophies, and I have already had a 'fuck this game' situation, thanks to Trophies. I got into a hectic fight with a bunch of Sirens... I can't make it sound intense but it was... I was well into it... I was well into the idea of hunting down these Sirens so I could save Athens from Ares and perhaps the gods will relieve me of my guilt...

But when I beat them a Trophy came up saying "Don't They Ever Shut Up!"

They just ruined the moment, like when someone hugs you but whacks their hips against you a bit too much. It ruins it.

So maybe achievements should perhaps stick to their lore a bit so not to remove you from the game, like they do on the most part. It's not clever calling your achievement "Get to the Chopper" (I'm sure I've seen a video listing the games that do... there are loads)

I dunno, I just don't want shitty in-jokes popping up in my games where I don't want them. If it's a funny game then go for it, but sync it in with the tone, right?

[Sly Reflex]

I totally don't mind stupidly named achievements. They don't matter in the grand scheme of things. I'd rather they put some thought into them than just calling them Chapter I or whatever for finishing certain levels. On a side note I don't know how you expect to get anything worthwhile from God of War games that are not crude. For me it's one of the most crudest most pointless series ever that relies on the uber violence and general dickery of Kratos' actions to appeal. The fact is uses names like that for it's rewards system just makes me roll my eyes. I sort of expect it.

What does fucking annoy me is putting achievements in multiplayer games where you have to do something counter productive that either fucks you up or fucks your team over. Any achievement that makes an already hot commodity even more desirable pisses me off no end. It leads to people getting nasty or selfish because they're going after something that doesn't matter, whilst impairing the people they are playing with. I think we have enough of people being dicks online as it is without encouraging players to be dicks for a little jingle and a number that means sod all. That conversation's for another thread though, we might have already had it. I can't remember.

[spatular]

can't you turn the notifications off?... but yeah i agree if they could be hidden until a more appropriate time in certain situations that would be better.

edit - agree with sly about the online achievements too, although yeah not really the same thing.

[wholehole]

I agree with the whole "stick to the lore" standpoint and would rather they did, but mostly I'm not too fussed about what an achievement is called. I don't usually pay much attention to them when playing the game through for the first time.

That said, pretty much all of the achievements in Ascension are references to something outside of the lore. I wasn't paying attention to start with but after a while it gets a bit much, I even got a Total Recall reference from a boss this evening which I rolled my eyes at.

Can't say I really agreed with Sessler's views on the "Bro's before Ho's" trophy, bit of a storm in a teacup if you ask me. It's just a saying for christ sake, nothing bad enough to get your panties in a twist over. Plus, it's God of War, why would you ever expect anything more from it??

It all ties in to this general feeling where there's always someone that's offended by something. Rather than just let the people who enjoy the thing go ahead and enjoy it, they have to do the whole "vocal minority" shit and not stop until they get their way. I wish easily offended people would just not do the thing they're offended by instead of doing it and shouting about it after the fact. Just doesn't make any sense to me.

[DANGERMAN]

I think the god of war thing is a bit of a nonsense tbh, but I've not played it for myself.

As for achievements I think I remember one popping up after a 'heart felt' moment in something or other that took a bit of the gloss of it, can't remember what though.

It does make me laugh though when I see achievement chasers complaining about having to work for their pseudo reward. You helped create this, so respectfully...

[Sly Reflex]

If we're cutting straight to the chase these things were implemented to sell more games. That's the bottom line.

[regemond]

I go through phases.

I will always check my gamerscore/trophies on the game I'm currently playing periodically. If it's an achievement that pops up Mid-Level then I'll pause when i get a chance and check out what it is (as I have done on Metal Gear Rising:Revengence recently). But I don't let achievemnts distract me, and I will only go hunting (now, anyway) on games that I'm trying to get more mileage from.

I did that on Sleeping Dogs, and it ended up there were 6 or 7 trophies that I didnt get that would have got me the Platinum. But I got a lot mor eenjoyment by finding the trophies I did get, getting all the lockboxes etc, and in a backwards way the trophies got me to actively immerse myself in the game world more. Instead of driving straight past random events, I'd stop and check them out. I'd go and buy all the cars, all the clothes.

Go back to previous generations, and use another open world example - GTA: San Andreas. I played the story missions and occasionally changed my hairstyle. I didn't bother with the turf stuff unless I had to and I didn't pay much attention to collectables etc.

So in that respect, I think they're definitely a good thing. Could just be me though...

[Jimboxy]

Merged with the existing achievements thread.

[HandsomeDead]

I totally don't mind stupidly named achievements. They don't matter in the grand scheme of things. I'd rather they put some thought into them than just calling them Chapter I or whatever for finishing certain levels. On a side note I don't know how you expect to get anything worthwhile from God of War games that are not crude. For me it's one of the most crudest most pointless series ever that relies on the uber violence and general dickery of Kratos' actions to appeal. The fact is uses names like that for it's rewards system just makes me roll my eyes. I sort of expect it.

I'm kind of interested in games that have irredeemable bastards as protagonists to see if it's a thing that really works. GTA tends to try to make their protagonists anti-heroes and not go the Kratos or Kane & Lynch (I still need to try one of those games) route by tallying up the violent gameplay with fuckers, so the violent stuff has a strong context.

But anyway, this is off topic and I may say some more on God of War after I've finished it or done with it, as I can already see things it does well, things it doesn't and things I think they could have done to make it work better.

can't you turn the notifications off?... but yeah i agree if they could be hidden until a more appropriate time in certain situations that would be better.

Yeah, I could do that, and I might do, now. I have tried to do so in the past. When I played through Mass Effect 2 for the first time I turned the notifications off so I really got in to the cinematics of it but I found that it is all notifications it turns off, including when people send you messages so people thought I was being an ignorant dick. You can't just turn achievements off. But since I don't really communicate with people that way anymore I could just do that, but it doesn't mean people should just ignore how Achievements are used.

I agree with the whole "stick to the lore" standpoint and would rather they did, but mostly I'm not too fussed about what an achievement is called. I don't usually pay much attention to them when playing the game through for the first time.

That said, pretty much all of the achievements in Ascension are references to something outside of the lore. I wasn't paying attention to start with but after a while it gets a bit much, I even got a Total Recall reference from a boss this evening which I rolled my eyes at.

Can't say I really agreed with Sessler's views on the "Bro's before Ho's" trophy, bit of a storm in a teacup if you ask me. It's just a saying for christ sake, nothing bad enough to get your panties in a twist over. Plus, it's God of War, why would you ever expect anything more from it??

It all ties in to this general feeling where there's always someone that's offended by something. Rather than just let the people who enjoy the thing go ahead and enjoy it, they have to do the whole "vocal minority" shit and not stop until they get their way. I wish easily offended people would just not do the thing they're offended by instead of doing it and shouting about it after the fact. Just doesn't make any sense to me.

But he is a critic, so it's his job, and to his credit he isn't the type that just goes "this game is fun! 10 outta 10!"

He came across something that was a sticking point for him and commented on it. If that isn't an issue to you then you can just say "well, that sorta thing doesn't bother me so I'll still get the game" but it may be an issue for some people, so it's good he brings it up.

I mean, personally, his reaction was pretty much the exact reaction I had to the Poseidon Princess bit in God of War 3. That bit just crossed to the line to me and ruined my appreciation of the series as a whole, and I don't remember any reviews mentioning it... I wish they did as I don't believe everyone who reviewed it was okay with that section of the game as I know loads that retrospectively critique it, yet it wasn't in any review.

I don't think reviews should just be "waheey! videogames!" as proper criticism can assist in games growing properly.

I go through phases.

I will always check my gamerscore/trophies on the game I'm currently playing periodically. If it's an achievement that pops up Mid-Level then I'll pause when i get a chance and check out what it is (as I have done on Metal Gear Rising:Revengence recently). But I don't let achievemnts distract me, and I will only go hunting (now, anyway) on games that I'm trying to get more mileage from.

I did that on Sleeping Dogs, and it ended up there were 6 or 7 trophies that I didnt get that would have got me the Platinum. But I got a lot mor eenjoyment by finding the trophies I did get, getting all the lockboxes etc, and in a backwards way the trophies got me to actively immerse myself in the game world more. Instead of driving straight past random events, I'd stop and check them out. I'd go and buy all the cars, all the clothes.

Go back to previous generations, and use another open world example - GTA: San Andreas. I played the story missions and occasionally changed my hairstyle. I didn't bother with the turf stuff unless I had to and I didn't pay much attention to collectables etc.

So in that respect, I think they're definitely a good thing. Could just be me though...

Yeah, I can see Achievements helping with getting the most out of a game, but personally, if I like a game I will do that anyway. I remember really getting into the card game in Final Fantasy VIII and I didn't do it for Achievements as that kinda stuff is a reward in itself if you enjoy it.

Oh, and did this need moved here? This thread is all "I got this wicked 'chieve!" and not really for this sort of thing, right?

[Sly Reflex]

Oh, and did this need moved here? This thread is all "I got this wicked 'chieve!" and not really for this sort of thing, right?

The site hasn't broken for a few days and Jim needed something to keep him occupied.

[Jimboxy]

Oh, and did this need moved here? This thread is all "I got this wicked 'chieve!" and not really for this sort of thing, right?

The site hasn't broken for a few days and Jim needed something to keep him occupied.

I'll be honest, I didn't really read the content.

[DANGERMAN]

I've repaired Jim's colossal fuck up

[Jimboxy]

I've repaired Jim's colossal fuck up

Thanks.