Street Fighter 6

[one-armed dwarf]

I played 3 characters in Strive and got a good bit more patient as a player from playing Testament and Bridget than I was with I-No. The thing with that game though is the anti air buttons are typically these 9-10 frame attacks with huge disjointed hitboxes, so all the characters I played had very easy to access anti airs. While in SF the timing and hitbox/hurtbox interactions aren't quite as permissive to the defender as in that game it feels like, so it's sort of a development area for me. JP's go to anti air is crouching heavy punch, but I need to really check the range on it. Forward heavy kick is even better for conversion but requires a really good reaction. 

 

I'm pretty mystified as to what the best way to challenge here in midscreen and the corner is, but I wonder if the point there is to accept it's just a bad place to be really. Or maybe a universal mechanic like DI or parry is the answer. Standing medium punch is the one poke with decent reach but no conversion even on punish counter as far as I see (at least, I couldn't find any links with punish counter in training, it does have some links off drive rush however).

 

(random JP v Manon match I found)

 

 

[Maryokutai]

I mean that looks roughly how we approached the matchup, even if we did it in a less optimised fashion. I've noticed the JP using neutral jump HP (?) as a tool in that weird spot where his grounded buttons are outclassed by Manon's.

 

Normals as AAs are a bit weird and strength differs vastly. They're not active for super long and have specific sweet spots so you sort of need to set up the situation. Manon's cr.HP doesn't work against jumps that would land on top of her head, hence why I don't always pressure from up-close when the opponent is cornered but also tend to stay at that MK/HK distance which allows me to AA if they jump out.

 

I have no idea how JP is supposed to behave on defense but his counter always stopped me in my tracks and usually allowed you to get out, so I'd say that's a solid option as long as you don't get predictable. But if you catch the opponent often enough it might make them weary of going in for a meaty and delay their approach, which in turn means you have a bit of breathing room to think of an escape.

[one-armed dwarf]

Yeah, the counter allows some interesting pressure setup, it's not linear as drive impact. In close range you can hit them in their recovery sometimes with crouching medium punch, and return them to a full screen zoning position with departure and spike combos. At slightly farther range there's a mixup option from departure into a crossup. Saw a safe jump wall swap with it too. Projectile specials can hit high or low etc. Neutral drive rush into different high/low options. Sonic Fox has a thing where he goes for a double overhead

 

I don't have any of that nailed down in my approach tho, as people in silver tend to just mash into the reversal and go flying anyway lol. I do have a E Honda dummy set up to tech grabs, jab into DI, block and do other things on hitting the reversal though, so I might load him up and give him more answers as well.

 

None of that it as much a priority as getting better at AA anyway. Or even light kick jab confirms into light fireballs (tho that's not gonna save me with manon)

[Maryokutai]

I also just remembered there's an entire system mechanic I keep forgetting about: Drive Reversal. The pros barely use it either because there's arguably stronger stuff tied to the Drive Gauge, but I think if you're cornered with JP and you're, say, blocking Manon's st.HK, that'd be decent spot to use it and reset to neutral in some situations.

 

I think neither of us used it even once yesterday. There's just a lot of stuff you have to keep track of in this game.

[Metroid66]

How do you do that. I ask cos for some reason I'm often stuck in the corner😃

 

It's a hard game tho isn't it. Especially as a beginner. There's so much to remember, like when an opponents combo stream ends. So to be good you really have to keep fighting every character and learn what all their moves do, when they end, and how much recovery time is stuck on the end.

 

At the mo, after a few sessions online, I'm still looking forward to my stick not shaking all over the place due to the anxious nature of my inputs.

 

[Maryokutai]

You mean Drive Reversal? You have to input forward + HP + HK while you're parrying or while you're in blockstun. It's sounds clunky when explained but it's one of those things you only need to pull off once to memorise the timing and motion. There's also a trial including it in the general tutorial.

 

As for the other stuff, like knowing what is safe and what isn't, you really shouldn't worry about that right now. Learn to get a feel how it plays, start doing things deliberately instead out of panic, move up past the button mashers and then start taking it step by step. If you're putting some thought into your actions and notice your opponent is as well, then the knowledge difference starts to matter and that's the earliest point you should start jumping into training mode with one character at a time and look for answers. You shouldn't learn how to walk, to swim and to ride a bike in the same day.

[one-armed dwarf]

On the floors we are on metroid, you can let the other guy push the button first and then push one back.

 

Then they refuse to rematch, cause they be like 'wtf, all I did was press buttons and still I lose'. It's a good strategy.

 

Won't work on mary though, sorry to inform you.

[Metroid66]

At my level I've not yet had any opponent refuse multiple rematches. I think beginners are more interested in getting match up knowledge than getting all salty about a loss. Which is good, really.

[AndyKurosaki]

Ryu and Guile are headed to ExoPrimal.

 

Yeah, still not making me give a shit about that game, Capcom. 😄

[Metroid66]

17 hours ago, one-armed dwarf said:

On the floors we are on metroid, you can let the other guy push the button first and then push one back.

 

You know this has been the best advice for upping my win count. It's also meant that I'm approaching my opponent with  patience, and I'm also getting decent horizontal movement, fading my approaches and such. 

 

Yeah, nice one. I feel I'm becoming a gief player, rather than a shoto whose picked the wrong character by mistake and now has to front it!

[one-armed dwarf]

Yeah, patience is a big deal with this game. Even without getting into the nitty gritty of frame advantage it goes a long way in the early stages of the leagues to observe and punish as a lot of people here are happy to do unsafe shit, and repeatedly. That's why it's a nice idea to have a punish combo labbed as well, though with Gief a command grab will do even better lol.

 

Next step in being a gief player is to await the inevitable message on Xbox or PSN about command grabs being cheap, and submitting that shit to @scrubquotes 👍

[Maryokutai]

With grapplers like Gief patience is even more important because usually they tend to be at a disadvantage against every other character from further away than half screen, meaning your opponent might be able to use fireballs and use long-range pokes while you're just sitting there to wait for an opening. Even more so in this game I think due to how important the first engagement can be. People play a lot less risky than they ever have in SF.

 

Also, check out the Zangief guide under tutorials. It takes roughly 5 minutes to go through but it (or rather all of them) does a really good job of explaining what you should be going and looking out for in a match. The last part of every tutorial is written as if the characters themselves are talking, so it's pretty funny, too (Zangief keeps calling zoners cowards for example).

[Metroid66]

Didn't even know that was there, so thanks.

 

I call them cowards too. 

 

Me Gief!

[Maryokutai]

I played some World Tour to get Manon's alternate costume, took roughly five hours. I'd say for a fighting game solo mode it's not that bad and the RPG mechanics do a good job of providing motivation where the lack of a human mindgame component might have drained it otherwise. I doubt I'll continue with it now that I've technically reached my goal but I can see the appeal from the perspective of a more casual fan.

 

Interestingly enough it also doubles down as a solid, but extremely lengthy, tutorial. Between side missions that teach you Cancels and the Drive mechanics and sidejobs the incorporate classic motions as a gimmick into the game, it's basically just a lure to get you into the real thing. 

[AndyKurosaki]

I’m quite liking the World Tour, but there’s some massive difficulty spikes. I’ve been battering randoms constantly, and levelling up quite a bit. But then I got to the tournament in Chapter 7, where you have to win 3 two round fights in a row. And I just scraped through. 
Didn’t help that in that tournament, you couldn’t turn the commentary off. So throughout each match, you have some dipshit going “That was a bold attack by Player 1. Oh and it’s a combo from Player 2”. 
Honestly, just fuck off, pal.

[Maryokutai]

What moveset are you using? I put a projectile on my character (doesn't really matter which, but Deejay's the best), had Manon's command grab, Marisa's Superman Punch and Luke's uppercut. I was also using Modern Controls in World Tour because I was playing with a new pad that I didn't want to wreck and also wanted to turn my brain off during the fights.

 

Anyway, with a setup like that or a similar one you can just keep them out with fireballs to build meter, use the command grab when close and spam Marisa's punch in between because the CPU can't deal with situations that leave them negative on block.

[one-armed dwarf]

I crept my way into gold 1 and finally it feels like I'm playing a real fighting game where people know how to deal with zoners, and actually want to rematch. People here whiff punish and know your frame data and stick around. There's adaptations, and adaptations to adaptations. Which you don't get with the never-rematchers, who can turn things into a slow slog of barely learning new things

 

It got pretty depressing slogging through silver for a bit, just gimmicking people who peace out after one game. Will never improve if they're that allergic to something a little unusual like a zoner.

[Metroid66]

Been having longer sessions on this as my confidence grows. There's been a lot of long sets with people pressing for multiple matches, including a fab and even mirror match set with another Gief, and a strange multiple set with a gold level Ryu who I kept beating with lucky reads, but who couldn't believe he was failing and wouldn't let go, and so kept rematching (I never decline a request). 

 

That one only ended when my internet packed in, which I was thankful for.

 

My biggest problem now is when facing a Guile. I'm struggling to get in on that character. He seems really tooled up for Gief imo. Dhalsim too, for that matter.

 

I also need to work on my air grab. I've neglected that, but in my mirror match it was a very effective move for my opponent.

[one-armed dwarf]

Yeah you are fucked for those kinda matchups, in terms of character based defense and offense. But it's a fun combat puzzle to figure out, right. The grappler has to condition the zoner and control neutral in a terrifying way without those long range tools, and that's why grapplers are borderline maybe the hardest to get good at even if the up front execution might make them seem like a more easy approach

 

I'm gold 5 in this now, touching the floor of platinum. But I'm pretty bored with JP and I'm going to start learning Dee Jay this weekend.

 

(speaking of hard matchups, no idea how to control that fucker. So it would be an exercise with a double benefit)

 

I beat up lots of manon's today, but none of them are as good as Mary but then these are short sets after all.

[mfnick]

I’ve seen some awesome Dee Jay players. Hes fucking impressive when a skilled player uses him. 
 

I need to try and get back into this. I fell off hard. As always I just don’t feel I can get any better now. My fingers just can’t pull off combos and I really can’t stand using the modern controls, just feels like I’m not actually involved in what my character is doing & I lose too many options. Plus as I’ve said before I’m too used to the classic type, it messes with my head. 
 

I’ve tried the World Tour mode but find it a bit boring. I much prefer the story modes of MK. I’m glad they didn’t try doing that again (5’s was awful) but this isn’t for me either.