Guilty Gear -Strive-

[Maf]

I’m learning stuff all the time. I think one of my weaknesses is I’m looking at my character too much. I think I should be focusing more directly on what the opponent is doing so I can react better. I was getting whooped by a Ky but as soon as I started looking at him my defense and correct responses went up. It’s just really hard, though because my movement is terrible so if I’m not looking at me then I’m not very accurate.

 

It’s hard and my brain is frazzled. 
 

I agree about Ram it does kind of feel like game over if trapped in the corner. It’s just really hard getting in though. I was playing a Ram earlier who clearly knew how to play against Millia and I just couldn’t get in. Even when I dodged the swords her attacks are so fast.

 

Aww my brain is fucked what a tough night.

It was super fun in it’s own way I smiled and laughed as much as I swore and shouted. I did have a good time. My energy is completely drained.

 

Call the medic, get me a McDonalds and send me back in coach I got ‘em this time 

[HandsomeDead]

@Maf come to the darkside and become the Leo.

[one-armed dwarf]

The thing maf mentions about getting kicked out of training due to weird connection bugs is really annoying. It requires a lot of effort to put up with cause it often doesn't even let you lab stuff or even alt tab to do something else. Feels like you have to baby the matchmaking. It would be perfect if you could reliably hang out in there for even a good bit of time labbing stuff but you can't.

 

It also I think doesn't really actually do match making, it just puts you at an arcade stand and maybe it will randomly put another guy there, or someone will go there themselves. Which explains sometimes why there's lots of people but no matches being made. Also if you want to go to a floor other than the one assigned you have to go through the lobby first to pick the floor. All in all it's terribly designed.

[Maf]

2 hours ago, HandsomeDead said:

@Maf come to the darkside and become the Leo.

I don’t think I’ve ever won a best of 3 against a Leo. They’re too ?

[HandsomeDead]

I remember once I fought a Gio user and after beating them once they left, switched to Leo and wanted to fight me again.  They'd used him more than me so I was like "okay, teach me something, let's go" but they didn't.  I still beat their arse.  This is why I know he's not unbeatable.  A pain, but not unbeatable.

[Maf]

It”s not a fair test because you’re using Leo. A Leo still won. 
 

I don’t think he”s broken or anything. He’s just frustrating and hard to fight against. He has a move for everything. 

[one-armed dwarf]

Maf where specifically are you failing with that dude, is it the back stance thing

[Maf]

The back stance counters are really hard to get past. The timing on them is so perfect to meet attack timing. The DP is ridiculous. It goes to the top of the screen. Even if he whiffs attacks he’s recovery is instant (Same with Ram actually). Once Leo gets going he’s just really hard to stop. 
 

So not to be unhelpful but kind of everything. 
 

You can’t go in the air because of the DP. Can’t run up on him because of the reach. And they’re the only two ways I now how to get to someone.

[one-armed dwarf]

You can't go up in the air but you can ping pong him up there yourself with your mix up. You really want to bait the DP out of him, I dunno how you go about it on Millia but on I-No at least you have that super slow air dash to make Leo gorillas think you're going for your overhead, then pull back and HCL or whatever.

 

The back stance thing is tough and I've not figured something out for it yet. There is a mission mode thing where you can practice it and you block the first attack and then grab Leo as he crosses you. But it doesn't tell you how to handle the variations, like when he pucks you low with his toe before crossing up. On a pure monkey brain level tho I've managed to figure out sometimes there's spots where you have a little range and a 5S is what you need. When you're caught in that nonsense tho there's not much you can do, so maybe save burst for it.

 

I'm messing around on floor 8 and I had some funny sets with a Sol where everytime they got meter they went really far away and twitched around constantly. It's so dumb how some of these guys do that, like I can see you spinning that stick around for the super dude I'm just gonna jump over it and bang you around

[Maf]

The problem with the mix up is he can DP through it. Even if I air back dash to bait it out sometimes he catches me anyway, or sometimes I end up in a position I can’t punish from, and sometimes they don’t DP at all and it’s a wasted opportunity.

 

It does also work sometimes but he creates so much fear even in a mix I feel like Leo has total control. 
 

Once the mix has failed it’s tough getting back in to that position again.

 

It’s a very tough character to fight. I really think it’s the only character in the game I’ve not won a 2 of 3 against. I’m not even sure I’ve won one set.

 

EDIT: Now I’m thinking about ways to play the game but I don’t want to think about it because it means I’ll end up playing it again  and get stuck for another 5 hours waaah GG is life GG is pain ?

[one-armed dwarf]

Do you use the replay function at all? It's perfect to figure out what's going on.

 

Other than Sol I don't think there's a character in this game that's fundamentally busted. Matchups make it subjective obviously but I would think Milla v Leo isn't particularly unfair to Millia but obviously don't know.

 

When it comes to BS I'm finding it hard to think of something worse than I-No v Chipp rn. Even if you're good at that match you're just taking advantage of him being a glass cannon, it's kinda not an interesting combat puzzle. Leo is actually the one I'm most interested in working out right now, as well as finding more ways to punish that potemkin mega fist nonsense.

[Maf]

I’ve not had too much trouble from Potemkin’s. They’re dangerous if they hit but I feel like I beat them quite decidedly. Just always back dash at round start because they all want to do the grab move. 
 

Maybe I just not played any good ones.

 

Sol, I dunno. He’s savage, but I’m not sure he is busted. I can beat bad Sol players and lose against good ones. To me that says they’re definitely beatable if I can do it. The damage is nuts, though. That grab that does 33% or something. Fuck off.

 

Not to copy but I think I-No might be my next character. She looks very cool and I like her moves. 
 

Oh, one more thing. If I could just do supers to get the damage higher. I still can’t do that. Double 236 on a PS5 pad is so hard. 

[one-armed dwarf]

Sol is busted in terms of damage scaling, every character in the game has their damage scale down the longer a combo goes but there's something with Sol where some of his stuff still hits for nearly full damage.

 

His f.S is also just a bit too much

 

 

Shave the right side of that hitbox back or something I dunno

 

Also on this page they straight up can't find any cons with the character lol

https://dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=GGST/Sol_Badguy

 

The thing is most of the Sol players in the game are terrible precisely cause of things like this, I think all the real Sol players are just in Celestial

[Maf]

Here’s me getting blown up by different Leo players. Even on a rewatch I don’t know what to do.

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

I fought all of them more than the one set, too. Lose all of them. There’s more where this came from.

 

While I’m here this is a pretty dramatic set I had against a Ky

 

 

[one-armed dwarf]

'Seems fair' lol the salt

 

In a pinch if someone is turtling super hard don't be afraid to bust out a dust launcher. Do it enough times and they'll be less inclined to wait it out. I dunno what other overhead options you have but I know on I-No I'm not always inclined to risk one of her overheads cause they are spectacularly easy to punish if people know what to do against that character. But dust is reliable. Most of the issues in those first 2 vids anyway seem to be a lack of dealing overheads on crouching turtles. You need to teach them to not wait it out I guess.

 

Btw when you are corned bullied like that doesn't Millia have a move that switches behind people? I fought one that did that to me a lot.

 

Maf tell me what floor these Leo's are on on playstation I'll head there with I-No and beat them up for you

 

edoit and before it's pointed out yes I understand the spiciness of doing an overhead on a guy with a DP that covers the entire galaxy, but dust is overhead also

[Maf]

I disagree. Dust launcher is super unreliable. No one ever falls for it. Even I don’t fall for it. You see orange you jump. Easy. 
 

This what I’m saying. It’s so hard to confirm off overheads with Millia. Some of that trouble is Millia herself is just so fast I can’t even register if they’re hitting or not. I’m just mashing the button patterns I know hoping it’s working.

Yeah she has a roll. But it’s only upper body invincible. So if they hit low it doesn’t matter you get got anyway. 
 

It’s also hard to think of when dying.

 

You see that one mix up where I prepared for the DP and he just didn’t do it? Or the one where I was holding back and got hit anyway? Or the one where I’m just standing there and his DP connects with me for no reason?

 

I hate Leo

[one-armed dwarf]

Well dust is more reliable than eating his tension gauge away while he is turtling. 

 

You're playing Leo's game there the same way when you're in the corner you're playing Rams. 

 

Here's one unrelated thing I learned about the Millia matchup anyway, her sword slide move is super negative on block. Making it very easy to punish if you know it's going to happen. I had a 6 set draw with a floor 8 millia who kept doing that shit to me, then I learned how to deal with it and she stopped doing it but had no idea how to continue that particular combo.

 

In that last vid btw the Leo is just waiting over and over for you to spam jump, a jump by itself is Christmas for Leo.

 

Anyway

https://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=GGST/Leo_Whitefang

Quote

Whiff Punishable: Leo's attacks are large, but have high recovery and extended hurtboxes. Leo's poor movement exacerbates the need to space his attacks cleanly since he cannot change spacing as easily as other characters.

 

So what I would try and do is figure out which of those moves make him more vulnerable, both in recovery and those hurtboxes

 

Just looking at his f.S

 

 

From what I gather you can 6P this, the blue bit is his hurtbox.

 

Same with 5H

 

Just theorycrafting here a bit cause I'm not just trying to be helpful but also trying to figure out the matchup myself as it's the main one I'm interested in learning. Can you 6P either of these moves and pop them up on the disc? Maybe that can be labbed, I dunno the specific timings and behaviours of the disc tho

[Maf]

That whiff punishable stuff is garbage. Yeah his DP is easily punishable if avoided, but all his other moves lead in to other moves, he’s a non stop truck. There’s nothing to punish there.

 

I also think a lot of his attacks look very much the same.

 

The thing about Millia and the sliding kick is there isn’t much else to do with her on the ground. People say she is mix up queen, but only when the H disc is out. Any other time I struggle to find moves that connect with her other moves, like the opposite of Leo. 
 

EDIT: On a more positive not I’m almost at the Platinum in this game. The last 2 multiplayer ones I can see are do 1 more Homing Jump attack (Which I think is Dust Launcher) and do 100 perfect blocks. I don’t know how they work but apparently I’ve done 57 of them.

 

All the other stuff is single player related or a Hidden Trophy. I would guess the Hidden Trophies aren’t multiplayer related

[one-armed dwarf]

A lot of his normal attacks are negative on block though, which means there's probably lots of openings there. It seems to be his main weakness in general, so maybe blocking these and following up is the way to poke through. Like when I found out how negative the sliding kick was it was like christmas for me.

 

edit in general I'd say start from that, learning to block the more basic shit he has and see where to go from that

 

edit @Maf poke around with the recording system in training, it's really weird but it works like this. You press record to swap to the character, then you press record again to actually record your actions (so you can practice before recording). Then you press it a third time to save it. Then you can set it to repeat on reset. You have to set the buttons in button settings first

None of this is going to make the difference against a floor 9 Leo but you can triage out some basic answers to some of the bullshit with it by developing a plan for it then developing the recognition of it in real fights. It's also helpful to maybe fail the first part and then counter the second part while testing it out cause obviously you're not going to be a mind-reader in a real fight. 
 

Spoiler

Now I need to do this on I-No instead. Handsome Dead isn't allowed to watch this btw, the tech is too advanced. Also I think it's bullshit how easy it is to do that back stance shit considering how much depression it's causing me and maf.

 

EDIT Maf the moderators are trying to roll back the database to keep me sharing this tech with you, there is a conspiracy. Anyway I was testing out what plan B I could use to deal with the Leo cross up and this is what I settled on. 5P spam, because I'm a big brain

Spoiler

 

 

Also I fucking murdered this floor 8 Sol and got my floor 8 badge back, yea boi

Spoiler

 

(OK he doesn't know how to block, but the butt kicking still felt good)

[one-armed dwarf]

I had this fight with a Leo, I dunno that he would necessarily rank high in the gorilla league but the last round of this set (the Leo dc-ed after one set, either bad connection or he ran away crying) shows the usefulness of 6P against these dudes.

 

 

A lot of their very poke-ey normals can be 6P-ed it seems like. 

 

Nothing fancy or advanced, just routine punishment of the more standard tools that he has can just give you more control over the fight