The Culture of Gaming

[DANGERMAN]

The BBC have a, I think, 2 part series looking at games as culture/art. I've listened to the first episode and it's pretty standard stuff, but it's done quite well. It does inevitably include Molyneux, but it also includes That Game Company.

One thing that does make it interesting is that it's hosted by Aleks Krotoski, the American woman off Bits (and The Guardian). She apparently got tired of games and hasn't played in 5 years, the series is her seeing what's changed. It's a good angle to approach it from as she knows her stuff but also isn't falling over herself to fawn over games

Aleks Krotoski examines how computer gaming is affecting our culture – by creating genuine works of art, by altering our notions of storytelling, and by simple virtue of being the cultural medium many people spend most time attached to.

Computer or videogames have been around for 40 years, but the wider cultural implications have tended to be glossed over in favour of discussion of the size of the gaming economy and concerns about games' social impact.

Yet in recent years the artfulness of games has grown so much that the Smithsonian in Washington DC is now hosting a major exhibition of gaming art.

New technology and the spread of games to phones, tablets and PCs are creating millions of new users.

The immersive possibilities of this uniquely-interactive medium are just being explored.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00wq5md

[Sly Reflex]

I listened to it. I just thought it was a massive wank off to Flower, while Flower is worthy of that recognition, there are lots of other games that are worthy of it too. I'm disappointed Krotoski gave up on games for that long. I know we all need a break now and then, but when you come back after such a long break I don't care how much of an expert you think =you are on the topic, you are behind the curve.

[HandsomeDead]

The thing with this is it's the same problem that Charlie Brooker's Gameswipe had. The things discussed are things we've been debating in depth for years, and listening to that wasn't that interesting to me. It's cool that thins went out on Radio 4, but there wasn't much for us.

And I'm surprised she gave up gaming when she did. I think it'd be 5 years a go that Newground was in it's prime, and while it isn't the classiest of places it did spawn Edmond Mcmillen (amongst others)... In fact Gish would probably be out then. I think the current indie scene would have been blossoming 5 years ago.

And even in the more mainstream games you would of had Animal Crossing. While it isn't as easily identifiable as 'arty' like the Thatgamecompany games, they do require a similar state of mind to enjoy them.

I just don't think gaming has changed that much over the last 5 years.

[DANGERMAN]

I agree with her that the distribution channels have been the biggest change. When you think that last generation we had some really divergent stuff (killer 7), the kind of games the cost of development has largely killed this gen, digital downloads have become hugely important. There's still the odd b-tier game that gets released, and it was something the Wii was great for, psn, xbla, and steam have been brilliant for the more high brow stuff

I think she's either overstating how long it's been since she played or her familiarity with Flower. Braid wasn't out 5 years ago yet alone Flower. Not having a go, just that I don't know if she missed the tipping point for that sort of stuff or was too jaded for it by that point

I do wish they'd go a bit deeper with these programmes too. When they're talking about narrative in games in my head I'm reeling off multiple examples, and why what they do is clever and unique to the medium. For example, they barely touch on the idea that in games you can create your own stories, add your own meaning. DC mentioned Animal Crossing, but there's Fallout, Skyrim, The Sims, Civ etc etc.

And something I always think gets forgot when this topic is covered, games can make you do things you don't want to do. The best example is when you're watching a horror movie and someone goes off in to the woods alone, you know they shouldn't but you're passive to it, and it's their problem. Project Zero/Fatal Frame has the same thing, only it's you having to wait for the ghost to get closer to you, and you that has to cross the room full of things you know are going to spring to life at any minute. When used in a more complex way you get Heavy Rain with the way it makes you choose between completing certain tasks (perhaps with pliers) or missing out on a clue as to the whereabouts of your son. MW2 with No Russian, even Final Fight 20 years ago

[Sly Reflex]

The urinal thing was really the only thing I agreed with. It has been created therefore it is an art. The difference is which games are comparable to DaVinci's Mona Lisa and which ones are Emin's My Bed? It's art. It's all apples and oranges.

[halfagogo]

to be honest i lost interest when you said she is doing a program about the effects of gaming on culture but gave up on gaming 5 years ago. thats just silly.

ill sum up how videogames have effected/are affecting culture - they satisfy those impulses (except sex for now) that our primitive ancestors had fulfilled by the daily act of just living - threats, hunting, chase, gathering, problem solving etc. we can just control when we do it. the fact that there is little cost/impact in the real world is irrelevant - its all in our heads (brains) and other places where the appropriate chemicals are released.

i read a few months back (now this could be fully loaded horseshit but it makes a kind of anthropological sense) that the basic/primitive stimulus requirements for males can be met by videogames & porn. Just leaves the ingesting & excretion.

[DANGERMAN]

I'm not sure that's how games affect/become culture, more why we might enjoy them. It also doesn't explain something like Dear Esther, or even Flower and Journey, their puzzles are barely worth mentioning

[Sly Reflex]

They don't need mentioning. Look at them like you would a sculpture. You walk around it to see all the intricacy. There. Explained. You don't need to solve any puzzles. Puzzles themselves can be an art though, look at Braid, the stories and quotes within the books. Damn, even the achievement pictures are all part of the bigger picture.

[DANGERMAN]

that's the point I was making, they dont fill a need

[halfagogo]

hang on, what are we/they defining as culture?

[DANGERMAN]

tbh I'm not entirely sure, the title doesn't seem to fit with the content of the programme. She wanted to see if games offered anything new, played Flower, then talked about narrative a bit, it didn't seem to be how they've shaped culture or how they fit in to it.

not to be too down on it but it's a bit of a nothing programme