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Demon’s Souls 2020


DisturbedSwan
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Wasn’t sure whether to start a thread for this yet considering I’ve barely got my foot in the door with the game so to speak, but, fuck it, why not. 
 

I’ve pretty much just created a character, gone through the Prologue and reached the Nexus. I did venture into the first Archstone briefly but then the missus came in after work and it had to go off. 
 

First impressions are good so far though, it looks ridiculously good. The combat feels as great and Soulsy as ever but I’m not sure about the camera, it always looks just a little bit too far away from the player character.

 

I’m not sure I’m happy with the Class I selected either. I didn’t want to choose Royalty as that sounded like a cop out and I’ve never used Magic in a Souls game so I went with the Tower Night. Immediately regretted it as the armour is heavy as fuck and I’ve got the fat roll right out the gate, I might try and rejig things on the fly, put on some light armour and pick up a sword instead of this weighty Halberd or I might start again tomorrow seeing as I’m barely into the game as it is.

 

So yeah, so far so good. I never got too far into the OG game at all (may be up to the first boss?) so can’t really compare it to that, but to play, it feels just like the other Souls games really which is a nice feeling.

 

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Spoiler

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So how did you do against Vanguard??

 

I'm a few bosses in now. Just beat the boss of 4-1 about 20 minutes ago. I was very familiar with the original DeS, so while it does look pretty. The fact is it Demon's Souls, with a new skin, has lessened my initial excitement a little. For example, muscle memory kicked in for the controls immediately. Even my actual memory kicked in, to recall some of the level layouts and their treasures. I tried Depraved/Barbarian Class before remembering that in this game, that is Hard Mode. I'm just not that good at Souls anymore. So I'm back to Magician - my "Venger" build - redux for the remake.

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I started again and selected Royalty this time around. I know it’s a bit of a cop out but I didn’t want to do my usual Knight build once again, got on way better with this class as she’s got the normal roll and light armour. 
 

First (proper) boss defeated last night on my first try. Wasn’t difficult at all, just had to use the pine resin (or whatever it’s called) to fire up my sword when I ran out of Mana and it went down super fast. 

 

God, this game is good. I’ve just made it through the first level and it’s up there for GOTY for me, absolutely unreal. 
 

I have to say though, this isn’t a criticism but I expected it to be a bit more different than Dark Souls (like Sekiro and Bloodborne) whereas it’s straight up just Dark Souls with some small differences. Running around that first level last night was so similar to the first level in DS3, the look and feel of everything was so similar too which is cool. 

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The main real difference between Demon's and Dark is the tone. You'll feel that more when you to travel to Level 3, 4 and 5. Horror over High Fantasy. Also bear in mind, the bosses are relatively easy in DeS. The levels are not. In contrast to the Dark series, there is one save point at the beginning of the level and one after you kill the boss. Between those two points you are on your own.

 

I'd say the Knights, Barbarians etc are specialist classes for when you are more familiar with the game. As the classes are not just superficial options. You might have noticed you aren't given a lot of souls for kills etc So you can't throw all your souls into Vitality, Endurance or strength for every class. My Magician is Level 29 now and I haven't levelled up his Health, Stamina or Strength yet. Because a Magic User is long range and doesn't really need those things. 

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I do like that there’s not an overabundance of Bonfires (Archstones/Lamps/Shrines) in this like the last two Dark Souls games and Sekiro, Bloodborne seemed a little bit better for it. The shortcuts are a staple of the genre by now so I’m used to them, but even so it’s still nice to rely solely on them and not have a ‘get out of jail free’ card knowing a Bonfire is just round the corner of the boss door like in some of the other From games. 
 

From the levels I’ve played so far (Boletaria Palace, Stonefang Mines, Tower of Latria) there’s bits of all the other From Soft Souls games in here really, there’s a Prison level in DS2 or 3 that’s very similar to Latria so far and parts of Stonefang are similar to a bit in DS2. The Prison locale felt more Bloodborne in vibe though with the otherworldly mindflayers.

 

This isn’t my first rodeo with Souls, I just usually play the same class cause I’m boring and I know how to spec it properly. This is the first time I’ve ventured off that path and it’s a nice feeling but I do feel like a fish out of water at times just cause of how I can’t rely on my sword and shield and have to spec out completely differently to how I usually would (have been putting points mainly into Intelligence and Magic with a little bit of Vitality) but then I felt the same with Sekiro (and to a lesser extent Bloodborne) and it did me no harm.

 

I played a lot today, about 6 hours which put me up to 7.5 total so far. 
 

Started out back at the Boletarian Palace 1-2 at the Phalanx Archstone. Lots more Castle ramparts and dragons here, all plain sailing more or less, was actually surprised how linear it was but I still dug it. All the little catacombs underneath hiding treasures and enemies galore. Then on to the boss (Tower Knight), I was still human at this point as I hadn’t died so thought I might as well pick a summon up. Was a breeze and I managed it first time. Couldn't make anymore progress here so on to 2-1 Stonefang Mines I went. 

 

Found this area much tougher overall, definitely had some bite to it compared to the first world. Got caught a few times by the magicians and got jumped by some pickaxe wielding nasties at points too along with those damn Wolves and Lizards. It really was a dark foreboding maze this place, really had to be on my toes at all times and couldn’t let my guard down. I really dig these dark labyrinthian levels. 
 

The boss here caused me considerably more trouble. I was at it ages trying to get a strategy down (or a way to cheese it) but to no avail, no matter what I did he’d always get me paralyse me with his dart and then get me with his fireball attack. I did find a way I could get into a corner and cast spells at him without him being able to do much damage but as soon as he brought the oil out I couldn’t get out of there quick enough with the paralysis he’d already inflicted. Eventually I sussed it out, managed to stand just far enough from him he wouldn’t attack with his fireballs or his melee arsenal which left me free reign to cast as many Soul Arrows as I could. He soon went down quickly after this. 
 

The on to 3-1 Tower of Latria. This area had a completely different vibe to it again, a dark, surreal prison with weird mindflayers pottering about all over the place. Tons of little rooms to explore, intricate little corridors and staircases to navigate whilst wading through the dozens of prisoners. I have found this area much easier than the last so far and only died once due to my own stupidity (being jumped and poisoned by a prisoner in a weird sarcophagus ?). Will pick up from there tonight.
 

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About 15 hours in now.

 

Got well and truly lost in the Tower of Latria last night and made lots of mistakes. Just felt like I didn’t take the game seriously enough and got a bit overconfident. Fell down lots of sneaky holes in the corridors and died so many times to the mindflayers as I didn’t fully respect them as enemies for some reason. I managed to get hopelessly lost too, the design of the area itself is such a maze filled with hidden staircases, locked doors and potential pitfalls round every corner. I must’ve lost so many Souls just being killed by mindflayers (or gravity ?) then rushing to get them back and dying again, just silly little mistakes. 
 

I think this is my favourite area so far. Such a weird surreal horror vibe to it with the mindflayers mixed in with strange torture devices and whatever the hell that big ball of arms thing was. Not to mention that odd arrow statue, just had such a weird vibe to it.
 

Went back to it this morning with a clear head and managed to make decent progress thankfully. Finally found a way forward after getting lost last night, I was worried about crossing that gigantic statue that fires a ridiculous amount of arrows but the route I found looped me round to the back of it and I turned it off without issue. From here it was plain sailing right up to the boss door really and then the boss itself was a really weird one, I enjoyed it but it wasn’t much of a challenge, put her down on my first try.

 

Then onto 4-1 Shrine of Storms. Absolutely adored this level as soon as I set foot in it, completely different to Latria. A windswept, stormy, snowy castle half way up a mountain with tons of weird stingray looking things flying around in the sky. The visuals here were absolutely astounding, the whole game is but the wind, rain, dark tunnels and fire here really highlight the games’ graphical prowess. 
 

Made decent progress here and got right up to the boss door whilst still human. I had 20,000 souls on me at this point and was just pottering about picking up the remaining items around the vicinity before heading backto the Nexus when I got invaded. The last time this happened a couple levels back I saw them off without issue but here I royally fucked it up and they killed me, not only that but they must’ve had a coating on their weapon that meant my staff and armour broke, which meant my spells were 50% less effective. I tried to go back for my lost Souls but quickly got cut down by a Skeleton. I had to get these repaired back at the Nexus before heading back in to the level.

 

Once I got back into it I did a little bit of farming to try to get back most of the Souls I’d lost then went back to the boss door and headed in. This was another weird one, fired off a few of my spells and it damaged it massively but died on my first try. Second try did the trick and after a little farming for grass back at the 1-3 entrance I moved on to 5-1.

 

5-1 Valley of Defilement immediately had Blighttown vibes to it. I didn’t really explore too long here as my time was up for the session but I got far enough in to like what I saw of it so far. Will carry on from there later tonight.

 

I have to say I really like the variety in bosses. I can’t remember which game it was now but a few have definitely had a few too many humanoid bosses for my liking. Here they’re all over the place, weird monsters, weird sorcerers, huge insects and whatever the hell that thing was in Shrine of Storms.
 

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Made really good progress last night and today, now up to 22 hours played. 
 

Spent quite awhile messing about in 2-2 The Tunnel City, invading lots of people and having a great time. I then got hopelessly lost for awhile in the mine tunnels here, there were tons of these flying fire tortoise looking things and bigger versions that couldn’t fly along with the weird fairy/light things that seem to make things explode. Eventually I found where I was going and got to the boss door, at this point I had over 25,000 Souls on me and really didn’t fancy going back so I put my summon sign down and thought I’d help out with the boss before for a random before I head in myself. 
 

He ended up not being much trouble with 3 of us so after I regained my humanity I went back in with my own couple of summons in tow and easy peasy he went down. Made my way on from here and encountered another fog door, thought it couldn’t possibly be another boss after I’d literally just beaten the last one, but, yep, it was. This one was a lot different, ended up being a puzzle boss really, took me awhile and lots of deaths to figure out what I needed to do but once I got the hang of it they went down like a sack of spuds.

 

Then on to 3-2 Upper Latria. Absolutely adored every second of this area, was like a far more dirty, dark, grimy version of Anor Londo with a swamp filled with some really weird creepy creatures at the bottom. The boss here was very different and gave me some trouble, not the boss itself per se but the arena you’re on is quite narrow and it’s very easy to roll of the side, which I did repeatedly ?. Managed after trying for awhile and then on to 4-2.

 

Didnt make it too far into 4-2 The Ritual Path before calling it a day. But what I did experience wasn’t too fun ?. They had these constantly respawning enemies that all die once you kill the lead sorcerer similar to the bell women in Bloodborne. They were a right pain in the arse there and they are here as well, will carry on from there tonight. 
 

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Still pottering along as a level 33 Magician. No great agency to play this or finish it to be fair. As I've recently got my motivation back to decorate.

 

My normal approach to DeS is to kill all the level 1 bosses then level 2 etc. The only one that jumps the queue is Dragon God. Since it doesn't really have a level of its' own, after Flamelurker.

 

My most embarrassing death so far was to Fool's Idol. Got caught in a trap, hit three times by her and her clones. Before immediately rolling into another trap and death followed the next salvo. It is pretty sad to die to this games equivalent of Pinwheel. Although I am finding these bosses are quite different if you aren't built for melee. The Red Phantom Mindflayers of 3-2 pack a Huge Punch, in comparison. Given my most powerful spells: Soul Arrow/Ray, they are largely immune to. Meanwhile until I do kill Dragon God and trade his Soul to Freke, my Fireball attack (that the Mindflayers are weak to) has to be a closer range than I am comfortable with.

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Exactly the same as my build, just put your points mainly into Intelligence and Magic and a few into Vitality every now and again and you'll be fine @Nag and yeah that's the first proper boss.

 

I really enjoyed my time with this. I think the most impressive thing about it initially was how I'd completely forgotten Bluepoint made it (well remade it I guess) within about a level of playing it. All of that faded away, and I was just playing another FromSoft Souls game, just one that technically is superior in every way to every other game in the series. It is just such an authentic remake, everything about it feels exactly how it should feel, nothing feels weird or out of place or anything, Bluepoint absolutely nailed the look, feel and atmosphere of a Souls game. 

 

I could write whole essays on how good this game looks. Upper Latria and Shrine of Storms were the highlights for me, just both are pure WOW when you first see them, the lighting is just out of this world, the character models of the bosses and the particle effects. At times it feels like you're playing a CGI film or something, it is just crazy how good this game looks.

 

Playing as a mage was actually a really nice change for me. I usually just play as a standard Knight (putting points in strength, vitality and endurance mainly with some other bits and pieces on the side) but this time around I had to think about almost everything completely differently. I was much more squishy and took a lot more damage but I was so much faster than I usually was so could dodge and react much faster too. Learning all the different spells along the way and finding out what each of them do, managing my Mana pool etc. Was all completely new as well and such a refreshing departure from my norm. 

 

A couple of areas gave me a lot of trouble. Tower of Latria (3-1) was annoying as fuck for awhile and I lost a ton of Souls here, the Mindflayers being able to one-shot me again and again along with a few gaps in the floor that are easy to miss if you're sloppily running about the place (which I shouldn't of been). Then we have probably the most annoying area in the game for me, The Ritual Path (4-2), constantly respawning enemies combined with rolling skeletons, manta ray-type creatures that can spear you from any distance when outside and magicians just made for such an annoying mix. I had a little bit of trouble with the Trolls in 5-2 Swamp of Sorrow as well, mainly due to being so squishy and not being able to roll whilst stuck in the poisonous goo, with a little bit of luck and plenty of slow-running away I did manage it but it was a little annoying.

 

As for the bosses, only two really gave me any trouble in Maneater and Armoured Spider. The former was mainly down to the platform you're on, a narrow little plinth that's very easy to roll off of when you're dodging his attacks left right and centre. The latter I just had to get the knack of really, I tried hiding under a little platform but he kept getting me with his paralysis dart and then setting me on fire with his oil, once I got the knack of knowing where to stand so he wouldn't fire bomb me and also couldn't melee me I was home free. I really liked the bosses overall due to their variety and weirdness but there's no escaping they're mostly very easy.

Spoiler

Phalanx, Adjudicator, Astraea, Fool's Idol, Leechmonger, Dragon King, Old Monk and Dirty Colossus

I all managed in 1-3 tries solo.

Spoiler

King Allant, Penetrator, Storm King, Old Hero, Tower Knight and Flamelurker

likewise but with a summons help. It seems to me with this game From were experimenting with what makes a great boss and they never really nailed it aside from a small amount of the encounters. Most were just a little anticlimatic really for me, I never got that fist pumping moment of finally beating a boss after hours of trying at all, it was all plain sailing and was never properly challenged aside from one or two bosses who put up a bit of a fight. I get this is partly down to me choosing the class I have and also taking summons, but even then all other Souls games I've played are more challenging than this and they have summons etc. available too. Something like Sekiro is massively more challenging too.

 

I think the disappointing thing for me about it is that it's just another Souls game really. I expected it to deviate from the Souls formula a little more as it was the OG game in the series, but it is pretty much the same as the other games just without Estus Flasks and a few other bits and pieces that are changed up or different like the regimented levels rather than the sprawling open world of Dark Souls. 

 

You can see From was experimenting here. A lot of the level aesthetics like the poison swamp, castle ramparts etc. are repeated in quite a few of their other games, it's got a certain DNA in it that you can see they repeated and often expanded in many of their other titles. It's nonetheless great to go back and play the originator, especially when it looks and plays as well as this does. 

 

So overall, I can't recommend it enough really. I think for newcomers, if you take the class I did and use summons you shouldn't have any trouble getting through the game either, you might have to persevere through a few areas though (4-2, 5-2, 3-1) but once you get through it'll be relatively straightforward again. There's nothing quite like playing a Souls game, the amount of focus needed along with the amount of tension you feel from playing due to the incredibly intelligent foreboding enemies is just unrivalled by pretty much any other series/genre for me and whilst it doesn't hit the heights of Sekiro it's still nonetheless a very good game and a must for any Souls fan or someone who wants something to show off their new console.

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I think Old King Allant is the best of the bunch, when it comes to DeS bosses. As the final one should be. I remember in the original, he had a couple of attacks that had no start up or tells. They just suddenly hit and hit Hard. For those that have played Dark Souls 3, I think Midir was the Dragon God fight they always intended for this game. It just took them four games to get the vision right.

 

I notice the optional boss is missing from your list @DisturbedSwan. Did you not challenge Old King Doran?

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19 hours ago, OCH said:

I notice the optional boss is missing from your list @DisturbedSwan. Did you not challenge Old King Doran?

 

I didn't. I spoke to the Maiden in Black straight after the

Spoiler

King Allant

fight, it put me into the endgame bit then started me in NG+ before I could spend any Souls or do anything else really. I know he's probably something related to the key I got right near the end so probably somewhere in World 1 but yeah, not sure if I've missed the boat or not now.

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As long as you've still got the key from The Prince, You'll find Old King Doran on 1-1. As you reach the top of the battlement, just after the boulder, go right instead of left. You will have to kill the Red Eye Spear Knight first. You don't need to kill Doran to win, you'll see what I mean when you challenge him. Word of caution: don't try to tank his hits, you will die. He is the strongest character in the game. Even on NG+

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1 hour ago, DisturbedSwan said:

I know. I'm saying when he reached the boss gate for the first time he could've put a summon down, got help and done it straight away. Unlocking the Tower Knight archstone, then he wouldn't of ever had to do the boss run again, that's exactly what I did. 

 

I think they're great myself, I like the boss runs myself, I think it makes things too easy and convenient when there's a bonfire/archstone/shrine/lamp right next to the boss door, takes some of the challenge away, that was one of my few criticisms of DS2, DS3 and Sekiro. Shortcuts are the best method in my view, feel far more natural.

 

A counter argument some could make tho is that the summons take the challenge away as well

 

The challenge of boss runs is more due to how they deplete your patience imo, versus any sort of skill needed

 

I think if summons are a thing in this then there should be a complementary teleport mechanic that uses a similar resource to summoning

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18 minutes ago, one-armed dwarf said:

A counter argument some could make tho is that the summons take the challenge away as well

 

The challenge of boss runs is more due to how they deplete your patience imo, versus any sort of skill needed

 

I think if summons are a thing in this then there should be a complementary teleport mechanic that uses a similar resource to summoning

 

Yeah, summons definitely take some of the challenge away. 

 

I agree, but it feels like more of a journey to get back to the boss door, you can't just wake back up and boom you're there, that feels artificial to me whereas summons don't. Summoning folks and helping people with bosses is one of my favourite Souls mechanics.

 

Haha nah, I hope they never put that in, just wouldn't be a Souls thing to do. You can summon for the boss run back to the boss and then use the same summon for the boss already though.

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6 hours ago, one-armed dwarf said:

The challenge of boss runs is more due to how they deplete your patience imo, versus any sort of skill needed

 

This is the thing that stopped me with these games, and it very nearly stopped me with Bloodborne. I get sick of running the bit from the spawn to the boss, and there's always some bullshit you have to take on. I was watching @Bigkopmanplay a few weeks ago and watching him grind against the mobs on the way to the Gargoyles, while funny for me to watch him get pissed off, it illustrated the way I don't bother with these games. There's a lot of bullshit in them. Always has been. People give it a pass since it's From, but they really shouldn't.

 

It's shit game design. Sometimes it's just cunt game design. When I gave up on Souls it was because I wasn't capable of doing it, I was tired of having to do the same shit over and over and over. I threw the towel in at the Capra Demon there, and while it's not a particularly hard boss by any standards, having to do the bit with the dogs and backstabbers got old real quickly. Same as having a door to this encounter specifically hinged so when you try to speed through it, you drop off a ledge and take damage. It's just specifically designed like this to rile you. They know that you're tense already, so piling on pressure by making you frustrated is just another layer of icing on the cake.

 

It's not just the Capra Demon though, I've watched a few friends play through these games and it's the same old story, with the thick end of the bosses. Doesn't matter which game you play aside from maybe Sekiro. From Demon's right up to Blood they pull the same trick. There's no "Git gud" it's just perseverance. The people that can spend more time tolerating that will prevail. This is all there is to it. If you only have a few hours to play a week, I can totally see why you'd throw the towel in.

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I was thinking about this and I think the way you can do it could vary, but basically a consumable item that increases in price that you could call a 'soul anchor' which you can use to immediately get back to the boss. So for a price players could skip the easy but tedious and pointless running back to the boss to do the actual skill based content (beating the boss). Because I've heard it time and time again how it causes people to fall off these games. I stopped playing Demon's Souls cause of the stupid mine where you run through to get back to the fire spider. I like learning how to one-on-one fights like that and I'm fairly certain I could have even done that fight without healing items, but I get tired of the dull as dishwater work that's involved in just trudging back to the fight over and over.

 

Alternatively you could have it so you could sacrifice some of your health bar to get back. That would be more punishing but I'd be still find it better than how it currently works. But the thing is that a lot of people aren't going to summon to get around this issue in their design, either cause they're stubborn (like me) and want to feel like they learned the fight themselves. Or they are stubborn (like OCH) and don't want to pay for Playstation Plus. Or some other equally valid reason. So they/we have to do this dull rodeo with the game over and over.

 

In either event when it comes to figuring out a boss and exploiting his tells and mechanics it's imo a much more fundamental part of what makes these games good, much much moreso than the boring running back over and over that they make you do. Like I've played a ton of these games but I've never been convinced that From's approach with boss runs is something that's important to their design philosophy. It just reminds me of running to pick up your corpse in WoW or something, it adds very little except the time it takes away from you. Time which otherwise might convince people like Nag that these games are pretty cool, either with a well earned victory over a boss or from discovering some cool environmental storytelling or lore.

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If you're already looking at your backlog with one eye while playing it you weren't in the right mindset for these kinds of games from the start. I don't want to say they're perfect and that everyone has to like them – I played Demon's and never touched the franchise again for example – but you can't just boot one up and hope some instant gratification with everything served to you on a silver platter. You need to be ready to put some work and some time into it and ideally commit to it for a couple of weeks before even thinking about playing something else. It's not a game for people who hop from release to release, and I don't mean that in a condescending way. 

 

I remember it having its moments back on PS3. Storm ... Valley (?) or whatever that area was called was really cool. But I can see why it would put some people off and I would never start a second playthrough again. Just one of these game I'm glad I did play but also glad it's behind me. Thinking back it came out at a time when I still went to school (wtf). I probably wouldn't have gotten remotely as far today as well with how less time for games I have in general.

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