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The Last of Us Part II


DisturbedSwan
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Everyone’s been very well behaved so far with spoiler tags for the most part. But as more people finish this remember there’s others like me who are far from the end, so please remain vigilant in this regard. ?

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Masterpiece is a strong term. I get why people think this is one, as there’s undeniably some outstanding moments.

 

Spoiler

The museum section was just bloody outstanding. Definitely going to be one of the high points in gaming of 2020.


 

The combat is satisfying, the collectibles do a great job of fleshing out the events of the world. 
 

I do prefer the story of the first game, as it just feels more organised. 
 

Spoiler

The constant flashbacks, and flashback within flashbacks in the second half just felt absolutely all over the place.


Is it a 10 out of 10? For me, no. The game did drag on towards the end, and at times came close to wearing out its welcome. To say why is majorly spoiler-tastic, so here goes:

 

Spoiler

I just didn’t give a fuck about Abby. I get what Naughty Dog were going for, they wanted to show us both sides of the story. And while I didn’t hate her, to the extent that the wankers sending Laura Bailey did, I wasn’t really that arsed about her. I wanted to get back to playing as Ellie, little did I realise how far away that was.


Was I disappointed by the time the credits rolled? No. Do I want to see a Part 3? To be honest, no. I think they’ve done all they needed to here.

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See now I definitely think they need a Part 3. At the end of 1 I thought it was a perfectly told story and a fine place to end it. Now the narrative definitely has other, almost definitely dire, places to go lol

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I think this is separate a bit from TLOU but I wish games could compartmentalize their story telling a bit, or even give the option to skip through sections of the game that might be less good or whatever. 

 

There's a Dara O'Brian sketch about it how a book won't suddenly close itself if you haven't got a good grasp of all the themes and stuff. With stuff like this and RDRII I think it would be a benefit to have an option to fastforward some of the player controlled bits. 

 

ie. you're going through yet another clicker infested apartment. Maybe the player decides 'yeah I've done this before, let me see the next important section and just skip this'.

 

I'm sure there are those who would be enraged by this suggestion but I don't care

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Managed to put in another 10 hours or so over the weekend. Now up to 41 hours played.

 

I'm now very much in the second half of the game with 

Spoiler

Abby

just after the Paris Games Week 2017 cutscene, which should give you an idea of where I am. 

 

Spoiler

Absolutely loved Abby's chapter so far. Getting to know her connection to Ellie, all the personalities of the ex-Fireflies in the WLF base and interacting with them. It's a really unique perspective in games to be able to go behind the Antagonists motivations and get to know them and their friends rather than paint them as some tyrannical megalomaniac like some games out out there. It humanises and grounds their story, making you realise that their group and the WLF in general aren't that different from the Jackson gang and that the Scars are the true nutjobs in the region.

 

I have to say it really hit me when you're introduced to Mel and Alice the dog that you've just murdered them as Ellie. She's such a cool dog and its great to see how much she loved Mel and then it dawns on you that you killed them both at the aquarium, really sad :( 

 

It kind of reminds me of Clockwork Orange in that you empathise with with someone who's just committed a heinous crime as soon as you get to know Abby and her friends. It presents them as murderous ruthless monsters when you first see them at the Cabin in Jackson and now you just realise they're a group similar to Ellie and co in Jackson. I will say the moments with Owen are really bittersweet as well, you can tell she really loved him. 

 

This part of the game kind of weirdly reminds me of Resident Evil as well with the different routes. The cliffhanger the game ends on in the first half when Ellie and Abby are facing off against one another is kinda reminiscent to the different routes some characters take to get to the same spot in an RE game. 

 

I do now understand why folks have taken issue with this half of the game though, even if I don't necessarily agree.

Spoiler

As the first half ends on such a cliffhanger I get why folks may feel like it's a side story or a distraction from Ellie's side of the story. But, yeah, I've really enjoyed it. At times towards the end of the first Ellie half I felt really guilty murdering the WLF as they just didn't seem that 'bad' to me compared to the Scars and it seems as if I was right. Making you understand the Antagonists and their motivations and making you empathise with them is a true masterstroke in my view. 

 

After the initial gut punch of losing Joel after seeing Abby's motivations for doing so early on in the second half she's fully justified in doing what she did after Joel killed her dad at the Salt Lake Hospital.

 

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1 hour ago, Nag said:
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Really?....

 

Spoiler

Well, Joel killed her Dad, so yeah in my view. I will say I've not seen the entirety of her chapter play out yet, I'm only on Day 1 after the Yara/Lev bit right near the aquarium so that could change and I might be lacking some much needed context. But yeah, as of now I think she's justified in killing Joel based on him killing her Dad. Not that an eye for an eye is ever the correct way to resolve things, but I can definitely see why she'd want justice for her Father.

 

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Spoiler

In my opinion nothing both Ellie and Abby do is in any kind of way justified. They are driven by similar emotions on a violent path of revenge, which makes sense in the context and it's also completely understandable from an outside perspective. But you can't look at them and say "they're doing the right thing". But it's a very interesting setup - painting the "hero" and the "villain" as basically the same person with different backgrounds - and I wonder how it'll all end. I think I'm close to the end, will find out later today.

 

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I completed this yesterday. For me this was an almost perfect linear, story-driven experience to the point where I sometimes found myself forgetting I was playing a game. It's the little things that break the illusion, for example characters knowing when no enemies are left in the area and commenting on it so that I as a player can relax. But they are needed to make sure it stays playable and readable as a game. 

 

I won't be going into the story side of things because of spoilers but I'm totally fine with almost everything of it. It's an excellent way of continuing where the first one left off which, at the time, was a game I never would have wanted to see a sequel to. I'm glad Naughty Dog proved me wrong, this was just as memorable as the first one and superior in a lot of ways, too. I think for this kind of genre this is, or should be, as impactful as Breath of the Wild was for the open world. It's mature in a way lots of games aren't, not necessarily by what it portrays, but how it does. It's also not just a cutscene-fest but a lot of stuff happens organically while playing the game and characters are talking about it. The first one did that as well, of course, but due to the bigger cast there's just more nuance in this one.

 

On the gameplay side, I appreciate how much diversity they put into encounters. No two areas really felt the same and there was always something new to use to your advantage, be it a lot of cover in abandoned houses and stores, a flooded lobby with "underwater cover" and lots and lots of other ideas that would spoil a few surprises.

 

Despite all the praise Naughty Dog got last-gen for Uncharted, The Last of Us was always their highlight for me. This is no different. I hope they bury Drake for good and continue on this path. It doesn't need to be a sequel (I'd gladly be proven wrong a second time though) but I think this stealthy, extremely intense and slow-paced type of game fits them like a glove. Fantastic all around and definitely my highlight of this year and very close to my top games of the entire generation. Wonderful swansong for a console I honestly never really liked, but now am glad I bought when I did.

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Finished this earlier and not really sure what I think of it, it was definitely a mixed bag for me anyway, I was enjoying it up to a point but then I think it’s too long. The combat is alright and can be fun stealthing about and stuff. And there is some great stuff in there and it looks amazing. There is some stuff that annoyed me too.

 

Spoiler

This is going to be a mess of thoughts.

 

i think there should be non lethal ways of taking out the human enemy’s, for one its all a bit gruesome for me, although I don’t mind with the monsters, and it sort of works against the story how many people you kill then we’re supposed to have sympathy for the character or believe the character regrets killing certain people, not sure why I’d believe that when they’ve already killed so many. It’s odd because the same happens in other games and I don’t care, I guess it’s usually space monsters, or in the other games the story isn’t as involved. I guess that’s what the games trying to make you feel/think about by showing it from both sides, I just ended up thinking both characters were horrible. And it made the game uncomfortable to play which is not something I want from a game. I tried sneaking past everyone sometimes but usually failed, it would have taken loads of reloads to get it right, the game clearly wants you to murder everyone.

 

already said but it’s far too long for my liking too, about 10 hours too long. Having said that I was enjoying it much more for maybe the first 16 hours. I’m not sure what they would cut though there’s certainly a lot of stuff going on in the game.

 

there were some really cool action bits like when you’re riding through the town on fire, and the water rapids/sewer section.

 

the enemies are really good shot, loads better than most game enemies, I was playing on super easy and they burst out from cover and shoot me nearly instantly a lot of the time, so I played mostly stealthy.
 

Having said both characters were horrible because of all the killing, I did sort of like both of them as well, like I said my thoughts are mixed up. And it was sort of interesting to play the game from both sides. On Ellie’s side I was a bit confused why we were hunting these people sometimes, then playing the other side it made a lot more sense. I think that’s partly a problem with it being so long and the story been broken up I couldn’t remember some people from that certain thing earlier on.

 

 


been avoiding this thread for fear of spoilers so will look back and see what you guys thought of the game now.

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GB put up their spoiler cast. I think Abby’s tone is a bit harsh but I agree with what she is saying. It didn’t knock me as much as it did her but I think she’s right about a lot of it.

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I don’t agree with Abby at all in that Spoilercast. She’s being far too harsh and dismissive about basically all

points. She’s got a really shitty tone when criticising it as though she’s above it all and soooo smart. 
Sure it was heavy handed at some points but when compared to 95% of games (100% if were only talking about AAA games) it’s on another level, even with its issues. & for the most part I thought it was incredibly well executed. I’m so glad I can appreciate games like this without feeling like I’m too smart for them like most critics seem to. 
 

Enjoyed the TCGS spoilercast much more. 

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I don't think a PS5 would roll all those missing details back in. It would be really cool to see enemies interact with the world objects like they do in that demo tho. Smashing the hammer into shelves and stuff. Sometimes these game worlds look so beautiful but are very static, even compared to some older gen stuff. I was disappointed that molotov fire wouldn't spread in tall grass. Remember that fire tech in Far Cry 2? 

 

Remember having my mind blown by how stray enemy fire in MGS2 would cause pipes to spit steam, tear up boxes etc. That's like the only game I can think of where the E3 previews ended up being exactly what that game was in the end.

 

I mean except for the part where it was all fake and you didn't play as Snake. 

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@mfnick Actually yeah I think I’m more on Vinny’s wave length than Abby’s. I agree with her on a lot but her tone gets really, over the top harsh about it. Again Vinny kind of hitting the nail on the head for me with his best comment being about how once it finished he moved on very easy and it didn’t stick with him (Or something like that). Same for me, really. I almost said the same in my first post after completing it. How I felt like the game had a lot to say, but actually when I tried to break it down it doesn’t really say very much at all and it’s pretty basic. There’s not as much I really had to think or talk about as it seemed on the surface. 

 

I think that’s why the game feels so long because it’s so inefficient.

 

But as much as I don’t agree with how Abby said it, I do agree with what she was saying as well. Vinny said it in a more fair and balanced way, though. 
 

Last thing about their spoilercast is I actually loved Jan’s interpretation of what the moth meant. I’ve actually listened to Neil Druckman on the Kinda Funny podcast say that there isn’t actually a real significant meaning behind the moth but Jan then comes up with something really fun and creative for it that fits really well. 

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10 hours ago, Maf said:

There’s not as much I really had to think or talk about as it seemed on the surface. 

 

No, but it's still very well executed for the most part and it completely blurs the line between good and bad which makes for an interesting and rarely seen concept in videogames.

 

I don't know why suddenly everyone goes all Shakespearian on this. Usually games like this (size, budget etc.) don't say anything at all but now that one comes along that does, well, better make sure it's so deep we'd need to revive Socrates to understand it or otherwise it's a failure? Too many double standards.

Also I'm not necessarily talking about anyone here – or maybe maf a bit – but more about what has been said about that certain podcast thing I didn't listen to.

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It comes from the top down because everyone else talks about the game in that way. Whether it’s Giant Bomb, Kinda Funny or the director and actors themselves that work on it. 
 

Also I’m not after it to be super philosophical or deep, I like this series (Or the first one) for it’s character drama, but Part 2 very clearly thinks it’s hitting the player with some grand, eye opening shit sometimes. To it’s credit it does have some surprises, twists and good moments of realisation just it then tries to hit those 2 notes over and over for 30 hours and it’s like, game you don’t got it like that. 
 

Also to the game’s credit even if the game is reaching for something it doesn’t manage, which clearly it does for some. Or people are trying to hold the game up on a narrative pedestal it isn’t trying to be on, although I definitely think it is. It’s good that the game can inspire people to want to talk about it in that way. There may be knocks at the game for how it handles it story but I am definitely not, and I don’t think anybody else is, knocking the game for trying to tell this story. It’s great it’s this more mature, further reaching, story first game. The fact that there are positive and negative things to say about it is good because as you say, in most cases there isn’t anything to say at all.

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