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DisturbedSwan
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@DifferentClass has a very good point.

 

It sort of reminds me when iTunes started up and people could cherry pick songs from an album. As a result albums supposedly saw an increase in quality overall instead of packing them out with filler.

 

It could go in either direction. The newer games that end up on these services could be all killer no filler or they could end up being packed out and bloated to warrant their price point.

 

EA have been very smart with that Origins Access thing they've done. I know that's not streaming but from a concept of distributing games through a subscription. You have a rolling thing where a game on the service has content drops every 3 or 4 weeks across several games and eventually you're going to make more money than the original one off payment you might have gotten. More so if the players end up buying MTX within those games.

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On 23 March 2019 at 15:17, Sly Reflex said:

@DifferentClass has a very good point.

 

It sort of reminds me when iTunes started up and people could cherry pick songs from an album. As a result albums supposedly saw an increase in quality overall instead of packing them out with filler.

 

It could go in either direction. The newer games that end up on these services could be all killer no filler or they could end up being packed out and bloated to warrant their price point.

 

EA have been very smart with that Origins Access thing they've done. I know that's not streaming but from a concept of distributing games through a subscription. You have a rolling thing where a game on the service has content drops every 3 or 4 weeks across several games and eventually you're going to make more money than the original one off payment you might have gotten. More so if the players end up buying MTX within those games.

 

But is that model sustainable for anyone other than EA?

And how are smaller developers going to gain traction AND be able to provide continuing content?

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Smaller devs? I think maybe it would be beneficial for small games that people wouldn't really take a punt on. I'm talking few man teams here, If they're being paid on minutes played like Spotify I reckon they could do quite well out of it. They wouldn't really need to continue putting content out, although some do.

 

The developers between the indies and the AAA studios? I've no idea how that's going to work out for them. It's a hurdle they're going to have to find a way of jumping though, since there's no way around this. Streaming will be eventually the way we consume games. People will try to cling on to physical and it might become a hobbyist thing in the same way vinyl has become, but physical is going out the window. First it will be digital only and then moving on streaming will go to take that crown.

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I don't think they are giving you 120fps.

 

I watched the Digital Foundry video this morning, apparently Assassin's Creed runs at 30fps (that might have just been at 4k, they weren't especially clear), which makes sense, the modern AC games are stupid for CPU usage. It's also going to look worse than native 4k (as in your computer/console doing 4k rather than a video)

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Pretty sure I’m their conference they said that last year on the test they were doing 1080p60 and when it launches that it will do 4K60.

 

There was also a game mentioned in the conference that was 120fps but I don’t think it was 4K. Maybe that was Doom?

 

I was wondering how pricing on this will work. Like if it’s not a box and you play it in a browser how do you pay for the Stadia portion? Is it going to be like a £200 log in which is effectively the ‘console price’ and then pay for games on top? 

 

I’m just making up that number, I haven’t pulled it from anywhere but it would feel very odd paying a big lump of cash for a log in screen and web links 

 

There’s already that feeling of when you buy digital you don’t have a tangible purchase so the value proposition feels worse. This would be a whole other level to that, I think 

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My jaw will hit the floor if they can do 1080p60 on the average connection. I'm not saying 4k60 isn't possible, but there might be 1 or 2 people here that could run that if they have monstrous internet. Maybe even other requirements like fiber end to end.

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they did say they were doing 4k60, but Assassin's Creed isn't that currently, I'm not sure you can hit 4k60 in it locked (it's the towns that are the problem, they hammer the CPU so throwing more GPUs at it doesn't solve it)

 

The benefit of them aiming for 60, and why they might aim for 120 eventually (but lock the animation to 60 possibly) is that the more frames means more input, which means less lag. Or not less lag, but it's one of the things that factors in to input lag reduced. I forget if it's Google's or DFs, but there's a chart that shows the lag times, Ass Creed on Stadia (posted it blow) is about the same as the Xbox One X, what they leave out is that apparently the Xbox version is particularly bad for lag, had they picked a different game to demo it might not be as favourable

 

Anyway, you can see the difference between the two PC times, 60fps has less lag because you aren't waiting for the frame for as long, so 60 is what Google will be going for more often than not, even if they can't get Assassin's Creed there. Worth noting though, my CPU is getting pretty old and I can get Origins more or less locked at 1080p60, this is 1080p30

 

  Google Stadia* Google Stadia 15mbps** Project Stream PC 30fps PC 60fps Xbox One X
Latency 166ms* 188ms* 179ms 112ms 79ms 145ms
Latency (inc display lag)*** 166ms 188ms 200ms 133ms 100ms 166ms
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I think I read somewhere you need 25mbps internet to get 1080/60fps and something like 35mbps for 4K/60fps. 

 

Which isn’t really too crazy, my standard fibre from BT does 28mbps so I’ll need to upgrade it to the next tier to get 50mbps and voila. 

 

Obviously connections are far from stable in this country but an extra £20-£30 a month for better internet pales into comparison when you’d be spending £450 on an Xbox X or £1500+ on a beefy PC. It’s a bit of a no brainer for me, if it drops to 1080p everyone in awhile whilst I’m downloading something in the background I can’t say I’m gonna be overly bothered.

 

I guess it depends how much Stadia is itself as well as I haven’t factored that into the above costs. As long as it’s not astronomically expensive at £100 a month or something then I’m probably in Day 1.

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1080p60 doesn't sound that crazy. Fairly sure I've played that on PS Now.

 

But that's not the real issue anyway. When I did try PS now it was dmc3 (of course) and I couldn't get a single guard down cause of the variability in input lag. It was awful.

 

However when I tried Shadow of the Colossus on PS Now I couldn't tell the difference between it and consoles. Cause that's already a hella laggy game and the margin for error is a lot higher.

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13 minutes ago, one-armed dwarf said:

1080p60 doesn't sound that crazy. Fairly sure I've played that on PS Now.

 

But that's not the real issue anyway. When I did try PS now it was dmc3 (of course) and I couldn't get a single guard down cause of the variability in input lag. It was awful.

 

However when I tried Shadow of the Colossus on PS Now I couldn't tell the difference between it and consoles. Cause that's already a hella laggy game and the margin for error is a lot higher.

yeah, the speculation is that's why Assassin's Creed was picked. It's a pretty game, and it's not particularly precise

 

 

18 minutes ago, Blakey said:

Obviously connections are far from stable in this country but an extra £20-£30 a month for better internet’s pales into comparison when you’d be spending £450 on an Xbox X or £1500+ on a beefy PC. It’s a bit of a no brainer for me, if it drops to 1080p everyone in awhile whilst I’m downloading something in the background I can’t say I’m gonna be overly bothered.

 

I guess it depends how much Stadia is itself as well as I haven’t factored that into the above costs. As long as it’s not astronomicallly expensive at £100 a month or something then I’m probably in Day 1.

 

That's disingenuous though, you've already got consoles, and it's really rare anyone buys a PC all as one like that. I don't believe you're going to get rid of your PC and not buy one of the new consoles

 

I've said it before but I do think the biggest problem Google has isn't how well this works it's who it's for. It's only going to be supplemental for a long time, and while the current consoles feel a little old now, they're being replaced soon, so google would need this to catch on quick to stop people picking them up, which it won't, so we've got traditional consoles for years yet, plus smart phones and pcs. They need to find a space in amongst that big enough to sustain this model, which they might well do, the benefit they have is they don't need to sell consoles all over the world, they just need people to have the internet and a controller they can use

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To play Devils advocate because I dont see this catching on this time round, but in the future, I think this is more for the European market and American market than the UK.

 

Take Russia for example. I have a friend and colleague that is Russian and worked here and is now in Russia and the way that the tech market over there works is weird as fuck. Basically wages are way way lower and so is the general cost of living but tech is the same price as it would be here. Whats considered a pretty good wage is around £500 equivalent a month, you can live pretty well on that in terms of rent and bills etc but not necessarily in terms of getting the latest tech, so buying a console or even one game a month is just not viable at all for the majority of people, and thats the same for a lot of European countries. Whats very strange is that the internet, and mobile data, is cheap as fuck and decent quality in the cities. As a result this kind of thing could probably catch on there where people want to play the latest games but cant keep up with the spiraling cost of gaming tech.

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