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Anthem


DisturbedSwan
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24 minutes ago, ThreeFour said:

Nah dude your projecting your own play enjoyment and time available like we're all the same

 

A few hours to play the new dungeon in Anthem is all I'm talking about. Same as having a few rounds in the new SoT  treasure hunt thing. You don't have to have 10 or 20 hours gaming time to consume whatever's come out. It's sort of piecemeal. Who really looks at the Anthem news that there's a new Stronghold and goes "Well, that's me for the next month"? You're going to play it a few times and move on. Only the maddest people with nothing else to play are really going to focus on it.

 

Look at that Destiny 2 with the DLC with Mercury. I played it for a few sessions and I was done. Sure there was that whole build the guns thing from the tower, but I ain't fucking about doing world events to get a gun I'm never going to use. Same as when I aw the Wall at the end of Anthem I was like "Well that can get to fuck!". For some that stuff is going to be rewarding, for others it's just grinding in a game that's not got a lot to do.

 

28 minutes ago, ThreeFour said:

But I do think you just dabble in these things. I've not played with you but your description about "too much to ask for the raid and trying for the cap" is arse about face to me. Made me do a ? The Cap is just something to guide you on your progression. I've never chased the Cap. I don't really care about it other than being smart and getting ready for the entry level for something. The Raid is the pinnacle of Destiny, mostly, and you should be going for it. If your group isn't up for it go LFG it. I've met some truly cracking people from all over the world. No game has made me go out and meet them like this has. 

 

See this is really wrong. Not everyone has a squad of 6. And when there is a squad of 6, it only take a few weeks of people fucking up in the small window where you can get everyone together when you're doing nothing wrong to call it. If the raid is off the table then what else is left?

 

Also in regard of LFG's, I've had nothing but terrible experiences with them. Both calling people in and backfilling games. Again when it comes down to it I'm doing my job, but it only takes 1 link out of the other 5 players and it's a wash. I'd rather not waste my time on that. I hate to sit with my dick in my hand because we're waiting on a 6th, or there's some problem, or an argument breaks out, or someone starts being a dickhead. Worst of all is having someone explain some elaborate cheese or some other bullshit method when everyone already knows what they're doing. I'm over that. Life's too short to be worried about it. You want to do that? Fill your boots. I ain't doing it in any game. It oversteps the boundary from having fun to feeling like work. It's very much a case of your mileage may vary. You met great people and I'm happy that that happened. Not everyone can be like that. On PS4 fewer than 1 in 10 has completed the raid in Destiny 2. I am in the majority and I'm OK with that.

 

I think people bounce off the games after the story is done more than you would like to admit. I mean it's only anecdotal from the people on my friends list but there are definitely people there that are in, story, few bits and bobs after the credits roll and then done. You're projecting the way you play on all the base there. I put way more time in than those players, but not anything near those people that really devote themselves to a game. Mainly because I get to a point where I've seen everything I want to and the rest is gated off. Again, this is completely fine. Would I like to do that stuff? Yes. Do I feel I'm missing out because I've not seen it? No. The stuff I am going to see in other games will more than make up for it. 

 

54 minutes ago, ThreeFour said:

Anyway f*ck off stop dragging me into this ??

 

Just because I tag you doesn't mean you have to write a post. Every time I happen to mention Destiny you get your dick in a knot and start up. :lol:

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2 hours ago, Sly Reflex said:

A few hours to play the new dungeon in Anthem is all I'm talking about. Same as having a few rounds in the new SoT  treasure hunt thing. You don't have to have 10 or 20 hours gaming time to consume whatever's come out. It's sort of piecemeal. Who really looks at the Anthem news that there's a new Stronghold and goes "Well, that's me for the next month"? You're going to play it a few times and move on. Only the maddest people with nothing else to play are really going to focus on it.

Again why would I stop playing something I'm enjoying and not finished with to go play something else? I'm busy with Sekiro and Destiny thankyouverymuch ??? You can't play every game. Select what most appeals and play what you fancy. I'll get round to Anthem when my mates are on it. Company is best like we both say. Content of the DLC will give you an indication of how long it might take. One stronghold compared to a big drop is different. 

 

2 hours ago, Sly Reflex said:

Look at that Destiny 2 with the DLC with Mercury. I played it for a few sessions and I was done. Sure there was that whole build the guns thing from the tower, but I ain't fucking about doing world events to get a gun I'm never going to use

Mercury was toss. A couple of decent Exotics but the rest of the DLC was a low point of D2. But generally you should go for any of the decent gear or you're that guy that just turns up to a high end event and ain't got any gear to help out the team.

 

2 hours ago, Sly Reflex said:

See this is really wrong. Not everyone has a squad of 6. And when there is a squad of 6, it only take a few weeks of people fucking up in the small window where you can get everyone together when you're doing nothing wrong to call it. If the raid is off the table then what else is left?

Mate these big group end game activities are abound. There's an 8 player one in Division (or was it coming later in Anthem), anyway, point is it's a big draw to a lot. If you don't make the effort you won't be part of it. Totally agree some don't have the time or impetus to do it but that's on you. Random matchmaking would be a nightmare for anything approaching a raid. 

 

I mean yeah what else is left. That's why I made a point earlier it's difficult to manage the content and engagement level in these games.  Something like the Shattered Throne Dungeon which was like a 3 man mini raid. Excellent stuff. More of that on top of the raid stuff and pinnacle weapons they've brought in. 

 

2 hours ago, Sly Reflex said:

think people bounce off the games after the story is done more than you would like to admit. I mean it's only anecdotal from the people on my friends list but there are definitely people there that are in, story, few bits and bobs after the credits roll and then done. You're projecting the way you play on all the base there. I put way more time in than those players, but not anything near those people that really devote themselves to a game

I never said anything otherwise. I agree a lot do bounce off. But I never get what some expect. It's a MMO lite looter. Mostly. They do operate different in their matchmaking. But they're largely all the same. You play an ok story which gets you started on the end game and you repeat content to get better drops to then tackle high end activities. It's cut and paste. It'll be no different in Anthem when I get round to it. I know the genre and what I'm in for. 

 

You can dabble and take the bits you want out if it sure. But if you're not going to put the effort in and say there isn't much to do I dunno. You're playing the wrong game? Not that there isn't flaws or just poor design in these games.

 

Like I don't get your issue with people getting really into it and not playing 'everything'. Seems odd there mate. People enjoy what they want no? 

 

2 hours ago, Sly Reflex said:

Just because I tag you doesn't mean you have to write a post. Every time I happen to mention Destiny you get your dick in a knot and start up. :lol:

You quoted me you tart, like you wanted to debate. Like I'm not gonna respond ?

 

None of this is about Destiny. It's your views on stuff I don't share as usual. About the genre as a whole. Going on about how much time I could have on another game or how people should spend time on them. That sorta stuff. 

 

If ya wanna do a chat on the genre, get shit off your chest we can arrange a time ?? hours at work are winding down now. 

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1 hour ago, ThreeFour said:

Again why would I stop playing something I'm enjoying and not finished with to go play something else? I'm busy with Sekiro and Destiny thankyouverymuch ??? You can't play every game. Select what most appeals and play what you fancy. I'll get round to Anthem when my mates are on it. Company is best like we both say. Content of the DLC will give you an indication of how long it might take. One stronghold compared to a big drop is different. 

 

What the fuck are you talking about here? If you're happy playing it, then you can. If you want to hop and pick and pop at different games, you can. I don't give a fuck what anyone plays. What I was saying is that for light content you can be done with it in a few sessions which can allow you to game hop. Come on mate, don't be dense.

 

1 hour ago, ThreeFour said:

Mercury was toss. A couple of decent Exotics but the rest of the DLC was a low point of D2. But generally you should go for any of the decent gear or you're that guy that just turns up to a high end event and ain't got any gear to help out the team.

 

If the game is shite (not specifically aiming at Destiony here, any game will do) I'm not going for it. I don't care how super awesome it is, if I'm not having fun then it's a no go.

 

1 hour ago, ThreeFour said:

Mate these big group end game activities are abound. There's an 8 player one in Division (or was it coming later in Anthem), anyway, point is it's a big draw to a lot. If you don't make the effort you won't be part of it. Totally agree some don't have the time or impetus to do it but that's on you. Random matchmaking would be a nightmare for anything approaching a raid. 

 

I've never been the weak link within a group. Not saying that I've not fucked up here and there because it happens, but overall whenever something goes tits up chances of me being culpable are pretty low. I've always been geared and able after been taught what needs to be done, I'm not amazing but I am capable. Saying that, I can only go as far as the weakest link, and when people are tired, drunk, shit at games or a mixture of all three then seeing the game over screen gets old quickly.

 

8 players is a lot, I hope there's no super tight timing requiring all 8 players to thread the needle, because otherwise that's going to be a right pain. LFG is just random match making with extra steps.It's all the luck of the draw, you never know what you're going to get. I don't think it's the way forwards. I do sort of like the idea of people using social spaces to assemble a team though, although that's something completely different and going off tangent.

 

2 hours ago, ThreeFour said:

I never said anything otherwise. I agree a lot do bounce off. But I never get what some expect. It's a MMO lite looter. Mostly. They do operate different in their matchmaking. But they're largely all the same. You play an ok story which gets you started on the end game and you repeat content to get better drops to then tackle high end activities. It's cut and paste. It'll be no different in Anthem when I get round to it. I know the genre and what I'm in for. 

 

You can dabble and take the bits you want out if it sure. But if you're not going to put the effort in and say there isn't much to do I dunno. You're playing the wrong game? Not that there isn't flaws or just poor design in these games.

 

Like I don't get your issue with people getting really into it and not playing 'everything'. Seems odd there mate. People enjoy what they want no? 

 

Some people are OK with an OK story. The loot is not the focus for those people, hence why they're not bothered about replaying and grinding for better stuff. The come, they play, they move on. Doesn't matter what the game is, that's a type of player that exists.

 

Putting the effort in? You mean assembling a 6 man capable of raids? Or is that something else? I don't see how that's putting the effort in myself. There's 5 slots there that are completely out of my hands. You want me to just abandon friends and replace them with better players? I'm not down for that. My friends are more important than seeing the end of one part of a game.

 

I have zero issues with people devoting time to one specific game. I have no idea where you've pulled this from. You want to play one game specifically, then go for it. What I am saying is that if you like you can sample all the morsels and still have fun while not spoiling the games for yourself by going too deep and proverbially over eating and not wanting to go back. Hence the play everything statement. If you want to you can play everything. Key word there is want.

 

2 hours ago, ThreeFour said:

None of this is about Destiny. It's your views on stuff I don't share as usual. About the genre as a whole. Going on about how much time I could have on another game or how people should spend time on them. That sorta stuff. 

 

Again with the thinking I'm dictating how people should play. I said want and you're taking it as should.

 

2 hours ago, ThreeFour said:

If ya wanna do a chat on the genre, get shit off your chest we can arrange a time ?? hours at work are winding down now. 

 

Are you really sure you want to do that? Because you're doing your best to misinterpret what I'm saying. All of this is optional. If you don't want to consume every minute detail of everything that comes out you can pick and chose where your limits are. I personally don't think collecting every bit of kit in any loot game is really worth it and I've done that exact same thing in Borderlands 2 aside from 1 or 2 very specific drops. It's not a cock measuring contest, nobody gives a fuck what anyone does.

 

You have to realise that you are a huge outlier with Destiny in particular. Outside of Spatula you will be the guy that's played the game the most here. Out of all the millions of people that bought the game you will be in the top 1%. There's an exception to every rule, in this case it's people like you that can spend forever in one game. The majority aren't like that and they're going to bounce around games.

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5 hours ago, Sly Reflex said:

What the fuck are you talking about here? If you're happy playing it, then you can. If you want to hop and pick and pop at different games, you can. I don't give a fuck what anyone plays. What I was saying is that for light content you can be done with it in a few sessions which can allow you to game hop. Come on mate, don't be dense.

Dense? Maybe if you didn't waffle on talking rubbish we'd actually get to a point. That's the issue sometimes with your long posts; Loses all meaning. 

 

You the one bringing up how much time should be spent in these games and suggesting a few hours here and there spread about. I was just humouring you. 

 

5 hours ago, Sly Reflex said:

If the game is shite (not specifically aiming at Destiony here, any game will do) I'm not going for it. I don't care how super awesome it is, if I'm not having fun then it's a no go.

To paraphrase you a bit; all it takes is a little bit here and there you don't need to do everything. But fair point if you didn't want to engage with Osiris. I struggled. 

 

5 hours ago, Sly Reflex said:

I've never been the weak link within a group. Not saying that I've not fucked up here and there because it happens, but overall whenever something goes tits up chances of me being culpable are pretty low. I've always been geared and able after been taught what needs to be done, I'm not amazing but I am capable. Saying that, I can only go as far as the weakest link, and when people are tired, drunk, shit at games or a mixture of all three then seeing the game over screen gets old quickly.

Not aiming it at your skill more a lock of effort. If you're not engaging in the end game stuff then your not gearing yourself up to be the best your class can be. You not being the weak link depends on who your with. If they haven't bothered then they'd be in worse position than you. When you describe to me what you've done  it suggests to me what state you'd be in. 

 

I'm not just talking about Destiny. I partly got into Monster Hunter because of you and thought end game we'd do some stuff, but you'd turned tail at Nerg. Division I seem to recall you didn't bother with the Excursions or late game builds. I'm just building a picture up which suggests your opinion on end game stuff is limited. Not meant as a slight, just calling what I see. Which is why I call you out on some stuff. 

 

LFG is a tough one. Even with some simple Horde mode stuff in Destiny or doing a Hard mode mission in Division matchmaking just didn't work a lot of the time either. You get a lot not knowing what they're getting into. At least with LFG there's no hiding why you're there or what your out to do. I'm not saying it's the answer but right now it's your best bet at networking. I didn't start with a good selection of people to raid with. Through effort I've a list of like minded people now. 

 

5 hours ago, Sly Reflex said:

Some people are OK with an OK story. The loot is not the focus for those people, hence why they're not bothered about replaying and grinding for better stuff. The come, they play, they move on. Doesn't matter what the game is, that's a type of player that exists.

Yes but you have to respect the game it is. There's going to be a lot of repetition and focus on grinding for gear after the story. You can't buy Anthem expecting Mass Effect level story or complain they don't want to 'grind' the same shit later on. 

 

5 hours ago, Sly Reflex said:

Putting the effort in? You mean assembling a 6 man capable of raids? Or is that something else? I don't see how that's putting the effort in myself. There's 5 slots there that are completely out of my hands. You want me to just abandon friends and replace them with better players? I'm not down for that. My friends are more important than seeing the end of one part of a game.

No it's meant about obtaining the gear. Where'd you pull lose your friends from? If there's 3 of you get 3 off LFG. Or don't. I'll play with whoever wants in but if your not at the light level or not got the gear to progress then there's nothing I can do about that. That's on you. 

 

5 hours ago, Sly Reflex said:

I have zero issues with people devoting time to one specific game. I have no idea where you've pulled this from. You want to play one game specifically, then go for it. What I am saying is that if you like you can sample all the morsels and still have fun while not spoiling the games for yourself by going too deep and proverbially over eating and not wanting to go back

Why tell them to treat it like a finger buffet? I darent go back to quote being on my phone but that's the feel of your responses. Your not in a position to comment on how someone consumes their game. Honestly I think you just have text diarrhoea and don't really read what you've put.  Go and read your quote. There's no want. Feels like you're teaching me to suck eggs, like I need that advice ?

 

Put it to me misunderstanding then and nip it in the bud, eh. With the amount of text I'm lost on what's said here. Why I hate these bloody long debates ?

 

5 hours ago, Sly Reflex said:

Again with the thinking I'm dictating how people should play. I said want and you're taking it as should

See above.

 

5 hours ago, Sly Reflex said:

Are you really sure you want to do that? Because you're doing your best to misinterpret what I'm saying. All of this is optional. If you don't want to consume every minute detail of everything that comes out you can pick and chose where your limits are. I personally don't think collecting every bit of kit in any loot game is really worth it and I've done that exact same thing in Borderlands 2 aside from 1 or 2 very specific drops. It's not a cock measuring contest, nobody gives a fuck what anyone does.

Or your wriggling around what you're writing. In chat I can call you out then and there with no confusion over walls of text. Look again with the pick and choose^ not needed. Doesn't add to anything. We all know what we like. A looter is about the gear, especially these ones in discussion. Nothing about cocks ?

 

Again what's me being an outlier got to do with a game designed around a gear grind? Sure you can enjoy the story and move on but it's not what I'd suggest if that's what you were after. Much better story experiences. But anyway enough of that. 

 

It's not a chat to be aggressive anyway it's debating a genre we both enjoy. Might make for a good discussion. Get Smalls in too as I see him on a lot. 

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5 hours ago, ThreeFour said:

Dense? Maybe if you didn't waffle on talking rubbish we'd actually get to a point. That's the issue sometimes with your long posts; Loses all meaning. 

 

I'm really sorry a post with a lot of words in makes you lose concentration.

 

5 hours ago, ThreeFour said:

To paraphrase you a bit; all it takes is a little bit here and there you don't need to do everything. But fair point if you didn't want to engage with Osiris. I struggled. 

 

The Osisris stuff is a good example of picking at something a few hours a week. Pull at it in small chunks so you don't get fed up of it. 

 

5 hours ago, ThreeFour said:

Not aiming it at your skill more a lock of effort. If you're not engaging in the end game stuff then your not gearing yourself up to be the best your class can be. You not being the weak link depends on who your with. If they haven't bothered then they'd be in worse position than you. When you describe to me what you've done  it suggests to me what state you'd be in. 

 

That's conjecture.

 

5 hours ago, ThreeFour said:

I'm not just talking about Destiny. I partly got into Monster Hunter because of you and thought end game we'd do some stuff, but you'd turned tail at Nerg. Division I seem to recall you didn't bother with the Excursions or late game builds. I'm just building a picture up which suggests your opinion on end game stuff is limited. Not meant as a slight, just calling what I see. Which is why I call you out on some stuff. 

 

This Monster Hunter part is bullshit. I played that game a fair old bit. I played it exactly once with you, then never saw you again because you played with your own group of mates. No attempt to jump into my games happened. I kept an eye out for you in that game and couldn't get a look in. You were always in a full party playing it from whenever I looked in. Don't come trying that with me. If you wanted to play maybe you should have put in a bit more effort? :P 

 

Division was a weird one. I'd spend a week or so putting a set together, then they'd change it and make it worthless. This happened several times. I put plenty of time into crafting sets and aiming for specific weapons only for them to be made redundant. It got to a point where I (or in some cases we, if you include group members) just couldn't be arsed trying to keep up with it because we were getting the rug constantly pulled from under us. I'm not going to spend ages getting a god roll when they can change what a god roll is because the game is fucked.

 

6 hours ago, ThreeFour said:

Why tell them to treat it like a finger buffet? I darent go back to quote being on my phone but that's the feel of your responses. Your not in a position to comment on how someone consumes their game. Honestly I think you just have text diarrhoea and don't really read what you've put.  Go and read your quote. There's no want. Feels like you're teaching me to suck eggs, like I need that advice

 

I actually went back and read all my posts pertaining to this to see if you'd caught something, but you hadn't. I say specifically if you want to play all these games as a service, you can. You are perfectly able to dip in and out of all the games I mentioned, skim the cream and then go back to something else before your enjoyment starts to wane. If you're enjoyment isn't being reduced, then carry on playing the game you like. This isn't hard.

 

6 hours ago, ThreeFour said:

Why I hate these bloody long debates ?

 

 

Don't take part in them, then., you daft sod. :lol:

 

6 hours ago, ThreeFour said:

Again what's me being an outlier got to do with a game designed around a gear grind? Sure you can enjoy the story and move on but it's not what I'd suggest if that's what you were after. Much better story experiences

 

The grindiness of a game is what kills it for some. Some people love a good grind, but for the majority of players grind can kill it. You look at the fall off after people have reached the start of the end game and the population of the game plummets. Doesn't matter what the loot game is, as soon as improvements start drying up and you can go whole sessions without getting anything of note, people start to get disenfranchised with the game and leave. That's the same for every game, but with looters it can carry on for a lot longer because of how they drip feed loot. The games are designed to keep you in this loop, but the ones that get it wrong shed players quicker.

 

Some people like the experience of discovering a world, levelling up and getting loot and are completely fine to knock it on the head when the levelling stop. The game designers will know this, everything after this point will be designed with the hardcore in mind. They're not daft, they know who they're catering for with the varying stages of the game. MOst people cross the finish line, do a lap of honour then pack it in. You're still doing laps. Nothing wrong with that if it's what you want.

 

The story stuff is true, but not everyone plays games for the story. Some people play for the spectacle or the compelling mechanics. You're boiling it down to being very binary there. There's more to a game than a story and loot.

 

6 hours ago, ThreeFour said:

It's not a chat to be aggressive anyway it's debating a genre we both enjoy. Might make for a good discussion. Get Smalls in too as I see him on a lot. 

 

If we get Small in a 90 minute chat will end up being 4 or 5 hours long and we'd both want to end the grind forever. :lol:

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8 hours ago, Sly Reflex said:

I'm really sorry a post with a lot of words in makes you lose concentration

Only your posts.

 

8 hours ago, Sly Reflex said:

The Osisris stuff is a good example of picking at something a few hours a week. Pull at it in small chunks so you don't get fed up of it.

Yes Dad.

 

It's pretty much what I did. Despite what you may think I don't play this non stop or go to lengths going through boring stuff.

 

8 hours ago, Sly Reflex said:

That's conjecture.

More Inferring. If you want to talk about the end game in these looters your opinions will be called up if  disagreed with. That's just debate. Which happens a lot on forums ya know.

 

8 hours ago, Sly Reflex said:

This Monster Hunter part is bullshit. I played that game a fair old bit. I played it exactly once with you, then never saw you again because you played with your own group of mates. No attempt to jump into my games happened. I kept an eye out for you in that game and couldn't get a look in. You were always in a full party playing it from whenever I looked in. Don't come trying that with me. If you wanted to play maybe you should have put in a bit more effort?

That's not precisely what happened. I didn't say I wanted to group up and play through it all. We couldn't anyway as party sizes in game weren't big enough. I cant help it if I have mates and family members I play with on the regular :mellow: Plus you were way ahead of us at the time. I meant I thought it would have been good to try the Elder Dragon stuff but you'd done one like a pussy (complaining Nerg was too hard if I remember) :P

 

8 hours ago, Sly Reflex said:

Division was a weird one. I'd spend a week or so putting a set together, then they'd change it and make it worthless. This happened several times. I put plenty of time into crafting sets and aiming for specific weapons only for them to be made redundant. It got to a point where I (or in some cases we, if you include group members) just couldn't be arsed trying to keep up with it because we were getting the rug constantly pulled from under us. I'm not going to spend ages getting a god roll when they can change what a god roll is because the game is fucked.

Yeah I get it but this is kinda the norm in these games don't you think? Especially these GaaS types. Patches and updates to the sandbox make some things less viable than they once were. Which is why its good to get all the loot you can to adapt. That underwhelming gear may be the meta down the road. Not so much an issue if you aren't planning on sticking around though, I admit.

 

9 hours ago, Sly Reflex said:

I actually went back and read all my posts pertaining to this to see if you'd caught something, but you hadn't. I say specifically if you want to play all these games as a service, you can. You are perfectly able to dip in and out of all the games I mentioned, skim the cream and then go back to something else before your enjoyment starts to wane. If you're enjoyment isn't being reduced, then carry on playing the game you like. This isn't hard.

I've done the same and there's  some wavering between 'consuming it how you want' and 'play it x amount of times' amongst your posts. But this he said/she said and you repeating another line ain't going anywhere and I've already said put it down to misinterpretation. Baffling thing is we have the same sentiment.

 

9 hours ago, Sly Reflex said:

Don't take part in them, then., you daft sod

Rude not to. especially if I'm @ at. That right? @ at? :lol:

 

9 hours ago, Sly Reflex said:

The grindiness of a game is what kills it for some. Some people love a good grind, but for the majority of players grind can kill it. You look at the fall off after people have reached the start of the end game and the population of the game plummets. Doesn't matter what the loot game is, as soon as improvements start drying up and you can go whole sessions without getting anything of note, people start to get disenfranchised with the game and leave. That's the same for every game, but with looters it can carry on for a lot longer because of how they drip feed loot. The games are designed to keep you in this loop, but the ones that get it wrong shed players quicker.

There's different kind of grind i'd say. Destiny is a good example of the differing stages. Early on to use a weapon to its fullest you had to grind for hours to get enough materials to level its nodes. Some games are worse at this than others. A really grindy game puts me off. I almost left Destiny. It was the first DLC that changed that so it wasn't as grindy. You then get stuff like Exotics dropping like candy from Taken King onwards, to D2's shambles of no individuality, to where we are now. But all these games will have that grind in them. But generally I agree.

 

9 hours ago, Sly Reflex said:

Some people like the experience of discovering a world, levelling up and getting loot and are completely fine to knock it on the head when the levelling stop. The game designers will know this, everything after this point will be designed with the hardcore in mind. They're not daft, they know who they're catering for with the varying stages of the game. MOst people cross the finish line, do a lap of honour then pack it in. You're still doing laps. Nothing wrong with that if it's what you want.

I mean generally that's what you'd hope but I don't think rings true all of the time. Destiny has tried to cater to different audiences, to their chagrin. Anthem is pretty much obvious now the Dev's didn't know what they were designing till too late.

 

Some people like to experience the story, play with a few toys, uncover the worlds, have fun interacting with the characters etc etc this was never in doubt. People get what they want from these things but you will only get so much of a thing from a certain genre. It depends what you want, so if you've played one of these games before and you didn't like it/bounced early, then you've got to ask what was it and why should I try this other one? If it was the grind to obtain the better loot or the pacing was slow or the story felt threadbare etc, then it's a common theme with these games that you need to consider before jumping into another one. Obviously this is not aimed at you.

 

9 hours ago, Sly Reflex said:

The story stuff is true, but not everyone plays games for the story. Some people play for the spectacle or the compelling mechanics. You're boiling it down to being very binary there. There's more to a game than a story and loot.

The story focus stemmed from your comment about an ok story, I'm not being binary. Of course if you want to go deeper, what you say is true.  But you do hear a lot that people pick these up, disparage the story and leave with the impression its a poor game. I did hope that Anthem might set a new standard in that department.

 

9 hours ago, smallofbooty said:

Don't drag me into this. The length of these posts is terrifying. Have you both thought of doing a PowerPoint presentation and using bullet points?

sorry, I just thought you'd have some good insight to share ;) I think we're wrapping up now :lol:

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7 minutes ago, ThreeFour said:

Only your posts.

 

Oh dear. Does having to google all the long words throw you off your stroke? :P

 

9 minutes ago, ThreeFour said:

Plus you were way ahead of us at the time. I meant I thought it would have been good to try the Elder Dragon stuff but you'd done one like a pussy (complaining Nerg was too hard if I remember) :P

 

That''s where I am now. I think I binged and blew out a bit as well as hitting the wall, which I tend to do in MH games. I got stuck in 3U and 4U as well and had months off before going back and picking up where I left off. MHW is the only one I've left for this amount of time and I'll be going back at some point, mainly for Iceborne's release. It was a combination of things really, other games coming out and work getting a bit mad. I should have gone back before now and I've threatened to, but it's never materialised yet. You're welcome to come join me/us when it happens.

 

15 minutes ago, ThreeFour said:

Yeah I get it but this is kinda the norm in these games don't you think? Especially these GaaS types. Patches and updates to the sandbox make some things less viable than they once were. Which is why its good to get all the loot you can to adapt. That underwhelming gear may be the meta down the road. Not so much an issue if you aren't planning on sticking around though, I admit.

 

Division took the piss though. I did have a whole stash full of the various bits and guns that I could make various builds from, but it was changing on a sometimes weekly basis, not from the community discovering stuff, but from Massive shifting the goalposts so much. When you work your arse off for that Sentry's Call or whatever and then before you've even got it fine tuned it's worthless, those hours you spent, not only with yourself, but other peoples hours chasing that stuff feel wasted. Each time you got anywhere they messed with it and upset the lay of the land in a way that meant more fucking about than actually playing. While I was never one for the meta sets the sets I built went up and down all over the place to the point of being irrelevant, I might as well have ditched the sets and just worn odd n sods as they weren't yoyo-ing all over the fucking place as much.

 

I know stuff goes through phases as they address and redirect the economy of how they expect the lootpool to work, it's a balancing act that even good teams manage to fall over sometimes. It's something that Bioware need to be aware of when they're tinkering with Anthem, they should have learned already by studying the games that have already come out, but they've not and now were in a quandary where the loot isn't good enough, it doesn't really matter that the drop rates are high when all it's dropping is junk with the 1 in a million god rolls that's basically game breaking. They'd be better off reigning in the tolerances and the shitty perks and meeting somewhere in the middle.

 

A major grievance I had with Anthem (and Division) is you'd get a bit of gear and it would have something on it that was completely useless or at odds with the gears purpose or it'd have something that would proc once in a blue moon. An example of this would be sniper rifle buffs on a bit of gear used by the tank class, nothing that would make you go "Oh, that opens opportunities", but more like "What the fuck is this shite?". Division had stuff that was downright impossible to proc, I forget the exact specifics but it involved you being on fire and the gun wiping the debuff if you got a kill with it. The stupid thing being you couldn't fire the gun while you were on fire so you've ended up with a dud perk, literally of no use.

 

It's situations like that that make me down tools, I can't remember who was in party when I dropped that tank gear, but I was furious because of how useless it was. Out of all the perks that option shouldn't really be a thing. I'm not talking about diluting the variation of what can drop, you can do that by altering the tolerances of the numbers on the perks that actually make sense to be putting on gears that has a purpose. The number of option can still be as high to ensure some randomness and grind in games, but the designers should know that purposely putting bad perks to hyper inflate the chances of you getting something good is a bad idea.

 

When you are designing perks and tolerances for what can spawn on weapons you need to be aware that putting something on that can seem quite good conceptually makes zero sense for that particular drop. Say like a weapon drops and it has a 25% improvement on reloads. That's going to be shit on something that takes .5s to reload, but amazingly good on something that takes 5s to reload. Maybe replacing that perk on the fast reloading weapon with a bigger mag size perk because it's sort of the same thing, but it's actually useful when you bring it into a sustained DPS check. There's many ways you can jimmy the numbers and putting equipment that could be useful under the spotlight so that players can look at them and conceptualise a purpose for it without just having a blanket set of perks that can turn out a lot of lemons.

 

When you design loot, make sure it works, and make sure it makes sense, because if it doesn't people are rightfully going to get pissed off and fuck off to the next game that comes out. If it's all shit people aren't going to stash stuff in the vain hope that one day it'll be good. They're going to spend time where they think it's wisely invested, and that's not in a game that feels like it's disrespectful of their time with thoughtless loot.

 

It's that stuff that makes you not want to stick around. I never really want to see a game fail, but seeing Division, Destiny 2 and now Anthem absolutely haemorrhage players, it's really easy to see why that happens when the sandbox they've set up has cat shit strewn through it. I understand Division picked itself up eventually, but it was too little too late for me. Destiny 2 has also recovered and I will be returning to it at some juncture. I hope Anthem manages to find the path it needs to walk as well. I've not played Division 2 outside of the demo, but I hope they learned from their mistakes with the first game.

 

1 hour ago, ThreeFour said:

There's different kind of grind i'd say. Destiny is a good example of the differing stages. Early on to use a weapon to its fullest you had to grind for hours to get enough materials to level its nodes. Some games are worse at this than others. A really grindy game puts me off. I almost left Destiny. It was the first DLC that changed that so it wasn't as grindy. You then get stuff like Exotics dropping like candy from Taken King onwards, to D2's shambles of no individuality, to where we are now. But all these games will have that grind in them. But generally I agree.

 

I know you've not played it, but Elite Dangerous is a good example of different tiers of grindiness. It's a game that's full of meters, but there's other meters you can fill that can make some of the other meters go up faster or easier. Money is not that hard to come by, you can almost dick about and it comes, but levelling up factions, unlocking engineers and collecting materials to improve the build of your chosen ship. There's a lot of tinkering and trying new stuff in a way you might build a toon in a game when you've gotten drops. It's different, but the same principles apply. There's only a small potion of people that are going to do everything because doing everything requires ticking a lot of boxes. To fully A rate and engineer one of the big three ships and go on to do the most challenging stuff the game has to offer is true end game. It's layered to a point where you can see several improvements hour upon hour but those notable upgrades become more sporadic and further apart until it can be weeks before you see the next one arrive since you're actively working towards it. There's times where it doesn't feel like grinding at all but then again there are times where that upgrade seems like a pinhole dot of light far off in the future.

 

1 hour ago, ThreeFour said:

I mean generally that's what you'd hope but I don't think rings true all of the time. Destiny has tried to cater to different audiences, to their chagrin. Anthem is pretty much obvious now the Dev's didn't know what they were designing till too late.

 

Bioware are ducks out of water. Bioware games have always had loot in them from what I can remember, but as single player games that smoke and mirror you through a more or less linear path from start to finish, the loot has been a bit uninspiring. It's always been a case of this bit of gear has bigger numbers on it so I'm going to use it rather than it having interesting properties like you'd find on gear ins something like Diablo, Borderlands, Torchlight, Warframe and all the other games I've not mentioned previously.

 

They've followed that mentality through without looking at what their competition is doing. It's not enough to do what they've done. I had a look through a list of all the legendary gear and none of it really stands out as something you'd really want to covet. I'm the sort of player that likes to get something that I like to use and stick with it, but there's nothing there like that that really gets me going. It's not like seeing something like Bad Juju or D3FNC and instantly knowing that you need to get them because you like playing with the ways those bits of gear facilitate.

 

@Whiskey_chaser Said a thing earlier in the thread where the guns and gear should have inert perks that really turn the game on it's head, stuff like spawning friendly mobs in, making copies of yourself and all other chicanery. They've created this world where literally anything is possible because of how Anthem's story works, but they've gone for the dullest gear ever. For all the fantasy Anthem surrounds itself in the vast majority of the guns could be put in The Division and they'd just be normal guns, there's nothing fantasy about them really.

 

1 hour ago, ThreeFour said:

Some people like to experience the story, play with a few toys, uncover the worlds, have fun interacting with the characters etc etc this was never in doubt. People get what they want from these things but you will only get so much of a thing from a certain genre. It depends what you want, so if you've played one of these games before and you didn't like it/bounced early, then you've got to ask what was it and why should I try this other one? If it was the grind to obtain the better loot or the pacing was slow or the story felt threadbare etc, then it's a common theme with these games that you need to consider before jumping into another one. Obviously this is not aimed at you.

 

Some people like to graze and they're fine with that. For some people that's all they're able to do because of commitments. They're not really bothered about learning intricacies that will allow them to get more from the game, they're just there for the good time until they move on. I don't think people that do that would consider it bouncing early, they got what they came for and they got it. Why would they try another one? Curiosity? Maybe they like some aspect of the next game. Maybe it's a social thing? It could just be it's favour of the month. There's lots of reasons people might try games similar to other ones, but then again there's lots of reasons that would blacklist games as well.

 

2 hours ago, ThreeFour said:

The story focus stemmed from your comment about an ok story, I'm not being binary. Of course if you want to go deeper, what you say is true.  But you do hear a lot that people pick these up, disparage the story and leave with the impression its a poor game. I did hope that Anthem might set a new standard in that department.

 

Yeah, I fucked up there with bad communication.

 

People getting onto a game saying it's bad because the story is bad is a weird one to me because I don't really play games for the story. I don't play them for the graphics or the sound either. I like to play stuff that's different or has really satisfying qualities that make them fun or entertaining. Really the only conclusion I can give for that is that everyone is looking for something specific in a game. That's a fucking wide net that has every possible permutation in it.

 

SPOILERS: Anthem's story probably won't set you alight, but it's capable. It's the characters that are enduring. There's 2 ladies in the game that are really hard not to like.

 

2 hours ago, ThreeFour said:

 I think we're wrapping up now :lol:

 

Depends if you come back. I should be editing next months podcast. If it's late you're taking the fall for this. :lol: 

 

RIP mobile users. It's a huge post even in the browser, never mind on a phone.

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8 hours ago, Sly Reflex said:

Depends if you come back. I should be editing next months podcast. If it's late you're taking the fall for this. :lol:

We'll your not being disrespectful in this long ass post so I won't bite ?? 

 

Apart from this

8 hours ago, Sly Reflex said:

Oh dear. Does having to google all the long words throw you off your stroke? :P

Making sense of your use of many words more like. Like and old drunk sat rambling on a park bench ?

____

 

There's loads there I'd like to counter or add to or embellish. But I think we all agree it's getting a bit long winded and we're taking up a thread. Plus I'm sure a mod is ready to pop a vein ? This is why I think a podcast could be good. Maybe after I've played Anthem and you Division 2 (I thought I heard you mention it). Otherwise I'm ready whenever mostly. 

 

8 hours ago, Sly Reflex said:

You're welcome to come join me/us when it happens.

I'm always down for that. Depends what I'm on with as finding time can be difficult. My roadmap after Sekiro is probably Metro Exodus in May. New Destiny DLC in June (shuddup). July August I think I'll tackle Anthem, friends be there or not. September is Borderlands 3 and Destiny drop. Not that you wanted to know my schedule, but that's my plan ?

 

2 hours ago, DANGERMAN said:

and yet... 

I kept it neat/nipped it up. Do I get a sweety?

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  • 1 month later...

They updated this recently. Not enough for me to warrant going back though. Got other games to play.

 

Apparently at one point it only had 5 people watching it on Twitch. It's also fallen out of the top 50 games played on Xbox One as well. No idea about the stats from PS4 or PC.

 

I'm astonished it has 3 and a half stars if I'm being honest.

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

I’m not sure if I’m waiting for a good price but know I don’t have the time to play it or just want it because of the price while knowing I don’t have the time to play it

 

It’s a confusing world we live in 

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