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Gaming Shout Thread


Sly Reflex
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They still have loading. Not sure what differences they have to old cartridges which could load instantly though. But you don’t have to install them, they just play straight away. Patches are generally a lot smaller too. 

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So when I said flash storage could just point to a location and get what it needs it still needs to process all that. Switch would presumably be more limited there than the disc based systems

 

But again I'm not close to a domain expert on this, the main thing I know is that the technology with the things that have to physically spin around goes sloooooow, the one that doesn't goes zippy fast

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I wonder if disc drives will still be a thing in the next gen? If the demands from the software continue to outpace the restricted utility of the hardware.

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They will definitely get rid of disc drives, either in the next gen or the one after. I'm fully convinced of this and will even say that I think the disc based PS5 will be unavailable in a few years. 

 

It's a cost savings measure and it will help them pivot these machines into what MS wanted to do with xbox in 2013, the always on system. 

 

Not that this is a good thing or anything, at the same time it won't affect me at all. It will be shit for collecters though

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25 minutes ago, one-armed dwarf said:

Not that this is a good thing or anything, at the same time it won't affect me at all. It will be shit for collecters though

Not for those of us who like to sell on games to help fund new ones too or just so we can afford them in the first place - like with Ratchet. I wouldn’t have been able to afford to buy that if I couldn’t sell it back on afterwards. Discs are still a lot cheaper than digital too. Easily save £5-10 at launch and they drop a lot sooner - Ratchet is already selling for £40-50 on ebay. And when they drop they stay cheaper. Digital stores still try selling 5+ year old games for full price sometimes. Which will only get worse if there’s no disc alternative. 

 

Wonder if they’ll ever bring in a rental service for them. Say 1/4 - 1/2 price and you can have access for a month. Then you’re no longer allowed to play it? That’s still not appealing to myself, I’d rather wait and buy it in a sale but it’d be a interesting way to go. 
 

34 minutes ago, OCH said:

wonder if disc drives will still be a thing in the next gen? If the demands from the software continue to outpace the restricted utility of the hardware.

They already have really. But nothing to say they can’t be used as a installation or proof of ownership style key still like they are now. No doubt they will go away though. Unfortunately. 

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A reason I think they will go btw is they've already gone on PC and Laptops. Out of curiosity I tried looking for a bluray drive for a PC before and they all have form factors of ancient desktop cases from the early noughties and are really slow.

 

I think what's stopping the console manufacturers dropping them right now is the size of games and availability of fast internet.

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34 minutes ago, one-armed dwarf said:

availability of fast internet.

 

That, being one of the reasons that the "always online" thing has floundered for all these years. Not everyone has the same speeds regionally. Let alone internationally.

 

Meanwhile, on a related note. The installs finished and I cracked open one of my games...

 

 

Spoiler

1BB.jpg

 

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1 hour ago, one-armed dwarf said:

A reason I think they will go btw is they've already gone on PC and Laptops. Out of curiosity I tried looking for a bluray drive for a PC before and they all have form factors of ancient desktop cases from the early noughties and are really slow.

 

I think what's stopping the console manufacturers dropping them right now is the size of games and availability of fast internet.

that's why there's no chance you'll see the disc version of either console disappear this generation. While for people like me where buying physical on console is pure choice, or people like Nag where he's all in on digital, there's still a huge market of more casual people who only buy their games on disc because that's what they know. Fortnite and the like would be the exceptions, but you can even buy disc versions of the likes of Apex Legends

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2 hours ago, mfnick said:

Not for those of us who like to sell on games to help fund new ones too or just so we can afford them in the first place - like with Ratchet. I wouldn’t have been able to afford to buy that if I couldn’t sell it back on afterwards. Discs are still a lot cheaper than digital too. Easily save £5-10 at launch and they drop a lot sooner - Ratchet is already selling for £40-50 on ebay. And when they drop they stay cheaper. Digital stores still try selling 5+ year old games for full price sometimes. Which will only get worse if there’s no disc alternative. 

 

Wonder if they’ll ever bring in a rental service for them. Say 1/4 - 1/2 price and you can have access for a month. Then you’re no longer allowed to play it? That’s still not appealing to myself, I’d rather wait and buy it in a sale but it’d be a interesting way to go. 
 

They already have really. But nothing to say they can’t be used as a installation or proof of ownership style key still like they are now. No doubt they will go away though. Unfortunately. 

 

This is why in another thread I was talking about a reassessment of the price of games.  Once physical is totally phased out in the future, which I think will happen, they can't rely on current prices to sell the amount they need to if people can't trade.  A lot of new games are sold this way.  If you don't have it and don't alter the prices sales are gonna be considerably lower.

 

I'm not against physical being an option, in fact it'll be good.  But I think of where music is and I do one day hope to have a vinyl collection of my favourite stuff.  But I listen day to day on Spotify much more cheaply.  I think games will have to take a similar route eventually.

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If they ever get rid of disc drives in consoles I'll probably just drop in and out of services like Gamepass for a month at a time to play what I want. There's no way I'd pay 60 or 70€ for a digital license I don't own, I've already significantly reduced the amount of digital games I buy on Switch because there's a very solid chance whatever successor they put out won't be fully backwards compatible. I'd rather go with the Xbox version instead in that case because there's at least another 15-20 years where it's guaranteed that they work.

 

Anyway, bit of random rambling. I think the main reason Nintendo went with Cartridges @OCH with the Switch is because A) they need a physical presence in stores because they have a huge "mommy buying game for the kid" audience and B ) optical drives aren't a good choice for a handheld system (moving machinery that drains the battery, lots of tiny pieces that can get damaged, unique disc format making it difficult and expensive to produce etc.). Sony dropped their UMDs for the Vita as well, it's just not a good storage unit for these devices.

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I've barely touched a CD for years.

 

Physical media is sort of pointless now. If I want to buy something even if it's a 100gb download it's still quicker to deliver it through the pipe than it is to deliver it through the letterbox. Sure, it requires a bit of planning and management of what you can have on your HDD/SSD, but it's really not that much fuss.

 

I think my main qualm with it is they can take it off you or it can be impossible to get if they withdraw it from sale. Like I wouldn't mind trying the Assassins Creed games from the top, but you can no longer get the originals on PC since they released the remasters. Unless you make Yves Guillemot cry by pirating it.

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It is funny that essentially the rental model has been reinvented through digital platforms. You only have access to anything, as long as you're allowed to.

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I mean once it's out there it's out there, there's no putting the genie back in the bottle.

 

I'd be concerned for the GaaS though, once those are done they're done. Although I'm guessing in a long time from now we might see stuff like Destiny vanilla servers like we did with WoW servers before they realised they could get people to pay to play WoW again with the vanilla servers.

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After Valhalla I will just not buy Ubisoft games at all now, because everytime that game gets a 5Gb patch you aren't allowed to play it at all unless you update. Something which I refuse to deal with in a game that isn't an MMO especially if the patch files are that big all the time.

 

That's separate from the disc drive stuff but also this is what MS were trying to do in 2013, it already exists on some PC storefronts. Steam included. Which fucking sucks.

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7 minutes ago, Sly Reflex said:

I mean once it's out there it's out there, there's no putting the genie back in the bottle.

You say that but, where is PT today? The Activision Marvel games and a few Fighters come to mind too, such as MK9 and the MvC games. They were available. Now they're gone for good.

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It is worse when things get delisted when they're solely digital but let's not pretend things going out of print and becoming difficult to get hold of outside of collectors is also the case with physical.  Discs eventually perish and cartridges have batteries and stuff in them that fail.

 

I care a lot about the preservation of video games and I do think a properly maintained digital library is part of that.  The only big thing in the way is IP law.

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Just wait until emulation for those machines becomes widespread. Eventually they'll be a thing.

1 minute ago, HandsomeDead said:

I care a lot about the preservation of video games and I do think a properly maintained digital library is part of that.  The only big thing in the way is IP law.

 

This pretty much. I do think everything needs to be vaulted somewhere. They don't give a fuck though, they'll happily sit on stuff they have the rights to but have no intentions of using. If you take something on you should be preserving it, it shouldn't have to fall on to Joe Bloggs to archive everything.

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I'm known for being a bloodhound when it comes to sourcing obscure physical stuff online. I found a limited edition Nike backpack for one friend from 1994. Another, a 2004 Footlocker exclusive pair of trainers. But trying to find digital only stuff tends to hit a brick wall. 

For example, Disney. Since acquiring Marvel, Star Wars etc have shut down any previously outsourced game or media belonging to their properties, purely out of spite. That is a very large back catalogue, essentially lost to time.

 

As Sly said, it shouldn't come down to the fans to keep this stuff alive. But then again, if there's no money in it for them, the suits don't care. That's why fan projects exist as they do today.

 

I'd also agree that physical stuff does degrade. But, as long as a copy is out there. Again, a fan/enthusiast will back up a copy. So that it isn't lost forever. 

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it's getting the same way with films too. Because the rights holders all want to control their own distribution now, there's stuff that you just can't find on streaming sites. It's bizarre because it can't cost all that much to convert it, it's content, but no one gives a shit about Critters 3 or whatever. It was the case with physical too, Disney were famous for holding back their films on VHS and dvd to create demand, I remember Jaws being notorious for not getting a DVD release for years and years because, presumably, they wanted to make it a big event for an anniversary 

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