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Marvel Cinematic Universe


Jimboxy
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Martin Scorcese elaborated on his earlier comments on Marvel films.

 

I thought of making a separate thread for this, but I understand we prefer the MCU stuff in one place. But I also fear the Thanos like impact this might have on this thread lol. 

 

*finger snap*

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/04/opinion/martin-scorsese-marvel.html

 

I don't disagree with it, more indie style production studios like A24 have come to sort of replace the types of films I used to watch before Marvel kind of took over. But the pre-eminence of Marvel stuff has signaled a new era of the franchise film imo, and traditional cinema has been redefined as arthouse imo. Which is to say it still exists, great films still get made, but they can be less visible and harder to access depending on where you live

(My hometown's cinema is just Disney and Marvel now, nothing else)

 

Important to note though that Marty's problems getting The Irishman to screen predate the MCU. 

 

I said I wouldn't post another post like this ITT, but well I thought it was a good op-ed and shows that it's not just an angry old man screaming at clouds (especially with the point made about Hitchcock)

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Yeah, I don't disagree at all with what he says about the business side of things and the priority that super hero films have in cinemas.  That stuff is totally correct. 

 

I still take issue with some of the characterisations of these films, though.  He talks about the films he appreciates as a filmmaker and a few of the things is themes, characters and paradoxes they go through.  With Marvel films (to stay on topic) I think they have these.  Scorcese goes on to imply that the films are mostly about set pieces but personally I usually think these are the weakest part of most Marvel films.  I definitely go outside of them for those kinds of experiences.  Where I feel the MCUs strength is in the characters.  Whether people realise it or not I believe its why people come back: how they started, how they changed, the events changing how they interact with one another.  

 

It's broad, it's cartoonish (and I don't mean that disaparagingly) but it's there and an important aspect of their success.  I get that it's like this because they know they have a large, younger audience to additionally accommodate for ( and probably mostly focus on). 

And it's the same with themes.  Again, they are simple for the most part but there is enough to nerd out about and even realise that you've missed something when you decide to deep dive into the discourse.  I just don't believe they don't meet this criteria of cinema. 

 

I think that's why I still don't buy his argument. But I totally get why filmmakers like him are frustrated at the amount of space left for films that aren't super hero films.  That only streaming services are really left and it is sad.  When I worked at a cinema I was frequently frustrated at the films that were passed up for some shitty example of one of these or having to show one of the better ones far too many times a day.  It is ridiculous. 

 

 

But tl;dr I still think "Marvel movies aren't cinema" is not a good take.  That's just me tho

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Like, as an MCU 'cynic' even I can see that these films have changed in the later phases so I dont fully disagree there. But I do think you can see the design by committee thing happening. How it can often seem they are trying to cram in a quip rate that's being focus tested as the optimal one. That sometimes the moments that are supposed to have emotional impact are undercut immediately by (often funny enough) slapstick. The big CGI bangs and booms at the end of each film.

 

I think that in the films I've seen, which is maybe just short of half* so it's a limited sample, this type of thing can undermine those character moments you speak about.

 

Tho at the same time the  narrative structure of a long running narrative can strengthen them. I see that in Ffxiv, which often feels like MCU in a video game (and is also very 'theme park')

 

What's a bummer for me is I have fewer opportunities to see films with my Dad when visit home cause it's all just Disney now at their local cinema. We always go to see the new Star Wars (tho both of us were pretty appalled by TLJ) but the types of film have shrunk outside of that.

 

Not trying to kick a Hornets nest but thought it was interesting and relevant. Seems to be a slow news phase for Marvel right now anyway (tho I hardly click on this thread ever ?)

 

*all of phase 1 other than hulk, iron man 2, guardians, spiderman, avengers 3 and 4, thor 3, ant man 2

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Disney will always prioritise whatever their current thing is. At the moment, Star Wars 9 is the focus of their marketing machine. So until that drops, you likely won't hear any other news to derail that "hype train". Through buying up Lucasfilm, Marvel Studios and now, 20th Century Fox, Disney have bought themselves a dominant market share in western cinema, which will adversely affect everyone else. Not many film studios have Disney Money, after all.

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On 22/10/2019 at 23:08, Blakey said:

Loach, Scorsese and Coppola are all amazing filmmakers and I respect their opinions. I do think they are being a bit elitist and gatekeeping somewhat though, they are all older gentlemen so it does at times sound like older men who were brought up with certain standards/types of films not understanding the younger generation of cinema if you will.

 

The MCU is here to stay though, and for me personally it has greatly improved my cinema experience since its inception. I may even go so far as to say it greatly improved my life and gave me hope where I felt there was none at times. I adore those stories, I adore those characters and I adore how happy they make me feel and I’m glad they’re there and have stood the test of time thus far. 
 

I do think it’s incredibly foolhardy to see the same doom mongering from the usual suspects on here going on about Disney’s impending demise whilst they put out the highest grossing film of all time this year, but c’est la vie. 
 

I adore film in all shapes and sizes, I think the variety on offer is one of the mediums biggest strengths. During Oscar season I adore perusing over the latest cream of the crop from that years talented filmmakers, confronted with complex stories, challenging themes and rich dialogue but likewise I like big blockbuster films that get the adrenaline pumping and transport you to other worlds and places.

 

It’s all good to me, film is fucking amazing.

 

Just quoting my own reply from when this last came up.

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But the MCU movies aren’t director driven, really. Which with what they’re trying to do and how they all have to interlock they couldn’t be, it wouldn’t work otherwise. That’s why it’s all Kevin Feigie who has the vision and then gets directors to implement it. You do sometimes see directors still manage to flourish within the parameters that are set for them. Taika, James Gunn, Russo Bros, etc. But for the most part I think it is very authoritarian and the Marvel style of film making would not work for a lot of directors. Not that they couldn’t do it but they would probably get frustrated working in such a defined space. It’s why Marvel films mostly feel like Marvel films and don’t feel like they are unique in most cases. 
 

But this is also the only game in town that does this so I don’t think it’s a bad thing. It’s not like Marvel makes all of Hollywood work like that, just itself. It’s their property, the producer, despite having 10 projects going at once, knows exactly what he wants and the job is to make the thing he is paying you to make. 
 

And in my opinion it doesn’t work only some of the time. The only 3 Marvel films that I think are bad are Thor 2, Ant Man 1 and Iron Man 3. The first two were just overly bland and the last one is because the director had to much control and just didn’t make a normal Marvel film at all and was worse for it. 
 

Also Age of Ultron is overall a film I think is quite good but that film more felt like it survived being buried by the ‘Marvel method’ than excelled under it like Avengers 1. But I think they know that, too, and it hasn’t happened since. 
 

There’s also the positive side to what Marvel has done where in some cases they have picked relatively unknown, in some cases completely unknown, but talented directors and given them a project and a budget they would never have. Thor 3 cost $180 million to make. Who else was giving Taika that kind of money or platform or reach to tell those kind of jokes? After 4 movies the Russo Bros now have enough capital to start their own business and have started producing international films and helping other Unknown’s get their projects funded. Look how sought after James Gunn is now. When he was fired the first thing Warner Bros did was “Do anything you want with any of our characters”. They weren’t doing that before. 
 

Like the way Marvel deals in directors isn’t for everybody, and it certainly, maybe not limits them, but they are certainly being hired to make a very particular film. But it’s just the nature of how the MCU works and I don’t think it would work any other way. 

 

Anyway, this is my summation of the good, bad and ugly of how the MCU deals with directors. For me they’ve made a couple of my favourite movies of all time, so I would say it works

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On 05/11/2019 at 22:17, one-armed dwarf said:

That sometimes the moments that are supposed to have emotional impact are undercut immediately by (often funny enough) slapstick.

 

That's what made Guardians 2 unbearable for me. Every remotely interesting character moment is immediately nuked by a cheap laugh. It's almost as if some focus testing told them that people who are not making happy noises at the cinema are not entertained.

 

I think the entire franchise took a turn for the worst during that period. It got better with Infinity War but then they immediately followed that up with fat Thor and all this childish nonsense again.

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For fun I just thought I would highlight some examples of where the MCU films took great inspiration from the comics

 

Captain America Elevator/SHIELD turns on Cap + (Cap doesn’t like swearing joke from Age of Ultron)

 

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qrYbYfSAssL4MherHbCwj5RgHX6XtbX6nTws1d_y
l0xt5sZWC9kGcM7lx6reTS88eWyXCXSFIX_FTKoy

 


Iron Man vs Hulk

 

The movie ends the fight way differently but still lots of similarities 
 

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xA0JvNHnFg0_1BVsPjUEUgPpB47vOat5zyKRsTff
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-jtbrSsFji36zJ-n3BwBKHnp-IpUzhykpk05dg5o

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zT8rkdzDGe5Kta_eQSxkiUXOJ1hHy5qtlvVNKqO_

 


Spider-Man/Final Chapter 

 

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People try to take Thor’s hammer from the desert/Brings Asgard to Earth

 

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I’m 13 minutes into Spider-Man: FFH and this film IS AMAZING 

 

EDIT: “This is Earth 616” Bullshit! What was that?!

 

EDIT 2: This fucking haunted house sequence is the best action scene in any Marvel film. How awesome. 
 

EDIT 3: It’s a mess that Happy is the best supporting cast member in a Spider-Man movie but I love him so much 

 

EDIT 4: “There’s been nothing scientific about this science trip at all” endless ?
 

EDIT 5: And finished. This movie is cartoonishly silly and OTT with some odd scenes and some odd humour but fuck do I just love watching Spider-Man do shit. Also the action scenes in this movie are phenomenal and Spider-Man is still the best fighter out of any superhero. And that final bit where he is in New York. If we only get one more MCU Spider-Man movie please let it be New York centric. I want to see Spider-Man fight like this on his home turf. And if they could up the quips that would be good. They got down a lot of the nervous, social anxiety, awkward teenage humour but where are the quips?

 

I don’t know but I loved it. Spider-Man is so awesome ?
 

marvel-s-spider-man-ps4-1177470-640x320.

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