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Hollow Knight

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Im actually generally enjoying it, despite the glaring flaws that everyone agrees upon.

 

The enemies I felt were cheap are when you get to some of the bits in that crystal fucking place where the little bastard flies shoot a crystal at you which then envelopes the entire platform you are on, and theres a section when its death drops followed by tiny platforms, and if the flying thing hits you mid air, you die, if it hits the platform you are on you will die. If that mechanic is in a mario game its cheap but you just try until you get through it and then thank fuck you are passed it, however in a game where you can lose all money and have to go through a few rooms to get back and its all about traversing back and forth its super annoying.

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3 hours ago, Sambob said:

Im actually generally enjoying it, despite the glaring flaws that everyone agrees upon.*

 

The enemies I felt were cheap are when you get to some of the bits in that crystal fucking place where the little bastard flies shoot a crystal at you which then envelopes the entire platform you are on, and theres a section when its death drops followed by tiny platforms, and if the flying thing hits you mid air, you die, if it hits the platform you are on you will die. If that mechanic is in a mario game its cheap but you just try until you get through it and then thank fuck you are passed it, however in a game where you can lose all money and have to go through a few rooms to get back and its all about traversing back and forth its super annoying.

*That is certainly not the impression I got from the last page or two. 

 

I dunno, maybe it's because I was raised on Mega Man, Battletoads and other such gems of the 8-Bit era, that I can't take the "difficulty" complaints against this game seriously. I mean Hollow Knight is far removed from the "die and go back to the start of the game". There are (ample) checkpoints now, for those who are struggling in learning the controls through experimentation within the environment. Much like the opening section to Super Metroid, that intuitively teaches you the controls merely shaping the tutorial section around them, without a single button prompt. 

 

The only take home "Souls-Like" thing I get from Hollow Knight (having played countless Castlevania and Metroid games prior, to the point I view official comparison to Dark Souls as just ignorant) is GIT GUD. This game rewards you for learning the ropes. That is where Gamer Skill comes from after all.

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1 minute ago, DANGERMAN said:

@OCH I think he might have been joking

 

also, did you just refer to Battletoads as a gem?

Of course, one of the best games of the 8-Bits, why?

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Just now, OCH said:

Of course, one of the best games of the 8-Bits, why?

it's a legendarily terrible game. It's the Dark Souls of being a bad game

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I think you are confusing 'terrible' with 'awesome', sir! 😉

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@OCH I don't think we need to start gatekeeping game difficulty. 

 

As for the souls comparisons, seem like Sam did a pretty good job of pointing out the similarities. Sure, it is clearly lifting inspiration from Metroid et al, that doesn't mean it can't draw on other things as well.

 

My personal 10p on this, started it the other night and was having fun with it. The platforming is odd as the physics make no sense (how can you jump, but have no movement and change movement whilst jumping.. although I have been playing NSMBUD so there is an adjustment period) but I was getting into it.

 

I was enjoying the exploration and the fighting. Found two bosses, one I didn't think I could beat so left, another I can't beat yet so went back to the first and beat him. At this point I'm thinking @DANGERMAN doesn't know what he's talking about... So I carry on and end up getting killed by a pretty cheap death and bouncing back quite far to my last bonfire bench, groan and start finding my way back and got killed again.

There ends my time playing Hollow Knight.

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2 minutes ago, Jimbo Xiii said:

@DANGERMANThe platforming is odd as the physics make no sense (how can you jump, but have no movement and change movement whilst jumping.. although I have been playing NSMBUD so there is an adjustment period) but I was getting into it.

 

 

Isn't that almost every platformer ever, including Mario? Granted Mario is pretty low on the ability to change momentum. Air control makes no sense but it makes games generally a lot more enjoyable, especially in metroidvanias where exploration of 2D spaces is key. I can't think of many momentum only platformers (Mirror's Edge... and that's it at the moment).

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@OrangeRKN yes I think you're right, it feels more pronounced in Hollow Knight I think though. It certainly felt odd anyway.

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But isn't bouncing on spikes with your sword just one of the most satisfying things to do?

 

I really like the movement.  I also had an adjustment period with it because I was playing it along with Dead Cells but once I got with it I think it's pretty slick. 

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29 minutes ago, DifferentClass said:

But isn't bouncing on spikes with your sword just one of the most satisfying things to do?

 

I really like the movement.  I also had an adjustment period with it because I was playing it along with Dead Cells but once I got with it I think it's pretty slick. 

I didn't know you could do that. Is that a default skill?

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13 minutes ago, Jimbo Xiii said:

I didn't know you could do that. Is that a default skill?

you mean the game was needlessly vague?

 

 

 

I actually did like the way it controlled mostly, I put my issues with the controls down to the Switch, I did a lot better at it with a different controller

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46 minutes ago, Jimbo Xiii said:

I didn't know you could do that. Is that a default skill?

 

Yeah, you can do it from the start.  Can't remember how it told me but it did.

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8 minutes ago, DifferentClass said:

 

Yeah, you can do it from the start.  Can't remember how it told me but it did.

If memory serves there was a brief hallway where you could innocently try it out... Before you get to that moving spike puzzle in Deepnest that makes it a requirement.

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Your memory is crap though so it probably doesn't serve you.😂😂

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23 minutes ago, DifferentClass said:

 

Yeah, you can do it from the start.  Can't remember how it told me but it did.

 

You have to use a downslash to get past this screen:

 

Spoiler

8RgSO1R.jpg

 

The game does a really good job imo of teaching the player how to do it too.

 

Spoiler

When you enter the room you drop down so you're always coming in from this direction.

 

UXQtn3G.jpg

 

When you run off the edge the mushrooms below are positioned so that you naturally fall on them and bounce off.

 

lI0JfLm.jpg

 

Move further right and you can see (in first screenshot) that there is clearly a way to go, with bouncy mushrooms either side. Just jumping on them doesn't give you enough height, so it requires a downslash. There are breakable scenery parts next to the mushrooms on the floor, so it's pretty likely that the player will attack the mushrooms and learn that hitting them makes you bounce off. It's a pretty small jump of logic then to try downslashing off the mushrooms by the pillar to gain the extra height needed.

 

I may have made this point before, hence having screenshots to hand :P

 

There is also another screen where there is a jump too wide to make, but there is an enemy that flies back and forth below platform level between the two sides, so jumping and attacking the enemy seems a reasonable thing to try.

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i think this looks interesting, but the lost progress stuff puts me off, i just wouldn't stick at it. i think an easy mode where you can save anywhere or something like that would be a good idea.

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