Indie Hollow Knight

[Maf]

There’s some really cool shit in Hollow Knight but it’s also top 19 most difficult video games of all time so getting to the cool shit can be a challenge. 
 

Hollow Knight is the first game in a long time when I legit couldn’t beat one of it’s challenges. That being the White Palace (I think it’s called that). 
 

I really loved most of the game but it’s biggest secrets are so secret I don’t know how you would work out how to access them without a guide and a few of it’s secret, late game bosses and challenges are so hard I feel like it’s kind of unnecessary and made me cool on the game a lot.

 

Which is a shame because most of it is awesome. 

[Maryokutai]

Yeah, it's a good game but it's also rather off-putting in a lot of ways. I really hated the map system for example, which made every pixel explored a waste if you didn't buy the map first. I also remember some ways back to bosses being more long than they had to in case you died during your first encounter (which you did, don't lie).

 

I liked it but soon realised it was as much work as it was fun and gave up after playing it for I think 10 hours. A couple of years ago I wouldn't have been bothered by this but I've grown detached from games which use a lack of comfort options as part of their design.

[OrangeRKN]

25 minutes ago, Maf said:

I really loved most of the game but it’s biggest secrets are so secret I don’t know how you would work out how to access them without a guide

 

I absolutely adore Hollow Knight but this is for sure it's greatest failing. There is a secret area hidden behind a breakable wall that otherwise looks like an ordinary wall that you have to jump to hit - no one is finding that organically.

[Rikzilla]

I adore this game.

 

But.

 

Echoing everyone else. The map system is terrible, and I 'finished' the game on 66%. There's still a games worth of content I haven't seen because I couldn't find it ?‍♂️

[OCH]

4 hours ago, OrangeRKN said:

 

I absolutely adore Hollow Knight but this is for sure it's greatest failing. There is a secret area hidden behind a breakable wall that otherwise looks like an ordinary wall that you have to jump to hit - no one is finding that organically.

 

Castlevania was doing that on the NES with Wall Chicken. The hidden Beanstalks in Mario 1, the Warp rockets of Mario 2 etc etc If something is too obtuse, then it won't be discovered organically EG How to become a Vandalier in Vandal Hearts 1 (Google it). When it is just a matter of extensive exploration, a gamer geared towards that way of thinking will always find it on their own. I thought the map of Hollow Knight in keeping with the vintage games, such as Metroid and Castlevania, that it pays homage to. It isn't catering towards modern tastes, nor is it supposed to.

 

The last time I played it, I accidentally found some Bee Hive I didn't even realise existed. A bit too high level for me too, as the enemies pack a punch and took a lot of hits (I haven't had a single Nail upgrade yet).

[Maf]

Did anyone else ever complete the Trial of Idiots or whatever it’s called? It’s like a wave based, colosseum type thing. It has 3 sets of difficulty, the last one must of taken me a collective 3-4 hours to do. It is. Fucking. Haaaaaaaaaaaaaard. 
 

And then you don’t get anything for it. Clue is in the name, I guess. 

[HandsomeDead]

Nah, but I did do the White Palace though

[Maf]

There’s no good way to describe it but there was a certain corridor with spikes in that I just couldn’t figure out how to get through. Spikes in the ceiling and floor of the corridor and they would go up and down in step. I am not of the belief it was possible. It is the only reasonable answer why I couldn’t do it. 

[OrangeRKN]

On 18/03/2020 at 15:07, OCH said:

 

Castlevania was doing that on the NES with Wall Chicken. The hidden Beanstalks in Mario 1, the Warp rockets of Mario 2 etc etc If something is too obtuse, then it won't be discovered organically EG How to become a Vandalier in Vandal Hearts 1 (Google it). When it is just a matter of extensive exploration, a gamer geared towards that way of thinking will always find it on their own. I thought the map of Hollow Knight in keeping with the vintage games, such as Metroid and Castlevania, that it pays homage to. It isn't catering towards modern tastes, nor is it supposed to.

 

The last time I played it, I accidentally found some Bee Hive I didn't even realise existed. A bit too high level for me too, as the enemies pack a punch and took a lot of hits (I haven't had a single Nail upgrade yet).

 

I think the map in Hollow Knight is really good and exploring it was a huge part of the appeal. Most of the time there are clues to secret areas, and a lot of them are subtle enough to make noticing them and subsequently finding the area rewarding. The path of pain really is the exception, and it screams "look me up on a wiki". It's also where the game mistakenly veers into being a twitch precision platformer, which the health and death system is really not well set up for. It's the biggest flaw in what I otherwise consider an all-time great. I don't think that specific example has much to do with modern tastes, it's just obtuse in a way the game otherwise mostly isn't!

[mfnick]

Fresh hot take, this is bloody great!

[OCH]

You know, this and Blasphemous I really enjoyed when I first got them. But haven't touched either in the longest time. I really should get back to that at some point? ?

[mfnick]

Yea you should, problem is I bet both are incredibly difficult to go back to once you’ve been a way a while. They’re built on learning enemy patterns and knowing your way around. You’d probably need to start them again. But I’d say they’re both good enough to do so. 
 

Just got the Down ability and reaching some more difficult areas where enemies are taking a few more hits, luckily just found the shop to upgrade my nail. Twice. Excellent timing. That’ll do nicely!

[OCH]

Yeah, I imagine both would need to be restarted from the beginning.

 

Oh I remember the Down ability opens up a lot of exploration. Enjoy!

[DANGERMAN]

Blasphemous was good

[mfnick]

Flying enemies can get fucked. In all games. 

[OCH]

8 minutes ago, mfnick said:

Flying enemies can get fucked. In all games. 

This was the worst one I remember, as a kid.

[mfnick]

Completed, 23 hours (wow, wasn’t expecting it to be that long when I started it) and 65% complete.

 

Absolutely fantastic game. But most of you know this already.

 

9/10

 

I understand there’s multiple endings so might go back and knock a few more percentage off and try and get some more. There was 1 boss I know about who I ended up leaving due to basically not being strong enough when I first challenged them

Spoiler

(Hornets second encounter).

So that’s where I’ll start. Some black barriers I couldn’t get by either so hoping defeating her will give me the ability to get by them and open even more areas up. 

[Maf]

Good job. It's a really awesome game. Though I'm curious about that 9/10 when you get in to the optional content. Not to get all "The real Hollow Knight starts now" cliche but the real Hollow Knight starts now. The not-critical content is where the game gets a bit rough and overly obscure (although for some that will be their favourite part). It's a really good game but a really tough one, too. 

[mfnick]

11 hours ago, Maf said:

the real Hollow Knight starts now

Load of bollocks ?. Maybe if you’re a sadist. I’ve googled and watched some videos it’s all basically (not sure if counted as spoilers) 

Spoiler

boss and waves of enemy challenges

after the main exploration stuff is done. 
 

The real Hollow Knight was the discovery and exploration while being challenged throughout. 
 

Anyway I’ve done the 2nd ending, beat all the revenge bosses and did the extra areas - wasn’t expecting the White Palace to go all Mario mixed with Super Meat Boy. Enjoyed that, Bastard hard too but actually handled it pretty well showing how right the devs got the feel of everything in this. 
 

Im done now though. I’ve googled the rest of it and it doesn’t appeal due to what it is, plus it’s just meant to be cruel with how hard it is. I’ve tried the

Spoiler

Dream

version of the end boss too and fuck that shit. Getting thrown into that straight after the main boss and with how hard and resilient it is. Nope.
 

Ive seen credits twice and got about 30 hours of pure enjoyment out of it. That’s more than enough for me. Ended up at about 86% complete in end. 

[Maf]

Well then I’m impressed. I thought everything non-critical was too hard to find and then even more difficult to do and it bought the game down for me. I never managed to do the White Palace at all.