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1 hour ago, DANGERMAN said:

My understanding though is that there's no narrative reason why he can't change sex/gender, one of the other time lords already has 

 

This is the bit that makes it so funny to me. I've honestly never watched an episode in my life, so I obviously don't have the attachment that some people do, but you can't suddenly say this genderless, shape-shifting alien now suddenly MUST be a man. I mean, the series is only 40 years old, and out of 13 doctors, this is the first woman. It's not like they're going with an all-female cast, they're just putting a spin on the formula. Or pandering, depending on how you see it (and tbf, it's the BBC, it probably is pandering rather than done for narrative purposes).

 

The other argument I've heard is 'what's next, Jane Bond?' fucking, YES! Give me a Jane Bond, I'd watch the shit out of that just to see the way they write her into/out of the situations James Bond gets into.

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You see that's my issue. Why Jane Bond? We saying women need an already established proven character to prop them up? It's weak. It's lazy and slightly disrespectful on the original creators character. 

 

To me once a character is penned - that's the character. Maybe slight tweaks for artistic purposes. If I create a popular character I wouldn't want someone bastardising for panderings sake.

 

In comics it's slightly different as they're usually alongside other characters or following in their footsteps. I'm fine with that. 

 

I dunno. Call me old fashioned or stubborn but I like to think there's enough female talent to create original characters that I can read/watch. I'd much rather a whole new female spy with their own vision than a rehashing of Bond/Batman/Holmes/Robin Hood et al  :mellow:

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@DifferentClassI think if you're fundamentally altering the characters motivation it's a problem. I'd read it as a one off thing, it'd be interesting, but it's not Bruce Wayne's story. Having a black batman isn't a problem though, same when they did it with Spiderman, it just needs a new origin story (probably not for Spiderman tbf) 

 

@regemonda female Bond, given his character,  would be interesting, but not Bond. Probably says more about society than the character mind 

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The thing about Bond as an example is that Ian Fleming's Bond and all the movie interpretations have had different tones and narrative priorities so they never hold true to the original creator's vision after a long time has passed.  Having an interpretation of Bond as a woman shouldn't be that much of a jump.

 

Stories are a reflection of our time and we are having something of a lady boom at the moment.  Wonder Woman is doing really well and original stuff is making it's mark with things like The Hunger Games as well (I'm probably missing better examples) so it's not like we're just getting lady versions of dude characters.

 

 

But I wouldn't be against that as well.  Bond is a malleable character as we've seen already.  Roger Moore's Bond is not the same as Timothy Dalton's so I don't see why that could be extended further to have say Anne Hathaway (brief casting idea) as Bond.

And also I think why having established characters recast and reinterpreted in different genders / races / etc is because it gives a power fantasy to someone else since that's what a lot of these characters we're talking about are.  It's not just a a woman can be a spy; it's that a woman can be James fucking Bond.

 

I mean, why keep it around if you can't mess with it?

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With characters that old like Bond or Holmes they've naturally had some shaping and tonal shifts but essentially held onto the same ideals that established the character. Even there some of the changes I haven't liked or I don't think worked. 

 

It's like all these cries about female Batman or whatever rather than explore the catalogue that's there or invent new ones. I've said for years characters like Harley would be good to explore. They do a piece of good casting and a great performance from Margot Robbie and whaddya know - a popular female character cropping up in fancy dress everywhere and getting her own spin off.

 

Women don't need that male power Fantasy. They can carve their own path.

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  • 2 years later...
  • 2 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...

So... Spyfall (Part 1)

 

One of the reasons I tapped out of Series 11 was the complete lack of serialised narrative. I've always been a sucker for overarching plot lines. Some examples of this, that always come to mind being Farscape, Babylon 5,  Bucky O' Hare or War Planets: Shadow Raiders. If you are telling a long term story line that rewards me for sticking with it, I'm on board.

 

Fast forward to 2020, and here we go. I always find episode one of a new series, the best jump on point when you're a bit out of the loop with Who. This was good... Until the twist reveal. There was something about it that was very.. Third Doctor, which I liked. Weird how we use Mi6 here and yet the Whoverse agencies: UNIT and Torchwood, are both dismissed with a throwaway line. Speaking of Torchwood, the new threat of the storyline was eerily reminiscent of The 456, to me at least. Spoiler free, I liked it but I don't think that particular reveal was a good one. Interested to see where they go with it. 7/10  

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Spyfall (Part 2)

 

I'm intrigued. The chase across time was interesting. Sacha Dhawan and Jodie Whitaker have an engaging dynamic together and I was most impressed that Lenny Henry played it straight the entire time. The companions, were so superfluous to the story, they could have sat the whole second part out though. I know some people that were annoyed with the reveal from this episode and where the story goes from here, but I wasn't to be honest. So far, so good. Not perfect, as there were a few missed opportunities but, this is definitely a step up from Series 11. 7/10

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I thought Spyfall was pretty good, if stretched a little to fill two hours. I loved the line about Graham not reading the instructions for the spy gadgets, then doing the "soft shoe shuffle". It also felt like classic Who, dropping in on very historic people/events.

 

Spoiler

The only thing that felt a bit too much for me was The Master in Nazi gear. Very heavy-handed.

 

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Indeed. Considering the Daleks are supposed to be the Nazi allegory of Dr. Who. I don't really remember occasions of Time Lords playing 'dress up' through time, either. The whole thing felt very Classic Who. The first part in particular was very Pertwee Era. Putting on my Nerd hat though, I do think The Master was the wrong choice for the story...

 

Spoiler

They left Master & Missy in a death loop paradox of their own design. That was a fitting end to the character "for now". The entire set up and threat of Spyfall would have worked so much better if the reveal of 'O' was in fact Omega. I would have bought what happened to Galifrey if it had been by His hand.

 

New Who tends to forget there are more than Three Time Lords in canon. I do hope this whole "Timeless Child" is actually something to do with Susan, or one of the Classic characters.

 

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Orphan 55

 

Oh dear. The 13th Doctor's run has already been contentious with Certain parts of the fandom and I think one of the reasons why, is highlighted in this episode. The complete lack of subtlety and nuance. In particular the close out dialogue.

 

This is a decent episode, until the final third. Wherein the themes of the episode are essentially hammered home like a brick to the face and I'm sure, without looking elsewhere online, it has left a lot of people with disdain for this episode. Which is a shame, as the message is a good one to make. The delivery is horrendous. 5/10  

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Nikola Tesla's Night of Terror

 

Better.

This episode seems to have all the restraint that the previous one lacked. There is a decent Period story with a strong secondary cast. The villains of this episode were a step in the right direction too. With more than a passing nod to the Racnoss, suggesting a common evolutionary link without stating it overtly. However, I think this episode once again throws a spotlight on the main problem of Series 12: too many companions. Even when split into separate groups in this episode, they didn't really do anything. The interactions for this episode revolved around the Doctor, Tesla, Edison and the main villain. Everyone else was just kind of there. Still a fun episode that should redress the bad blood caused by the last. 7.5/10

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Fugitive of the Judoon

 

If ever there was a WTF! episode of the current season, this is it. Basically to talk about anything that happens involves massive spoilers, but I think the show is finally starting to find its feet in terms of the 13th Doctor's tenure. This had plenty of nods, from the RTD era to the most surprising of all, Big Finish. This was good. 8.5/10

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Praxeus

 

A little late for this one, but it's been one of those weeks. So we have another environmental message episode... However, unlike the subtlety of a brick approach of Orphan 55, we have a story wherein the message is integrated into the overall narrative. This one is about plastics and particular attention is played to the micro-plastics inside us. We've got a global pandemic, more than a little nod to Hitchcock's The Birds and the Companions actually starting to earn their places in the show (although Ryan is still the weakest link in the entire show). Ultimately better than Orphan 55 (not too hard) but not upto the peak of the previous story. 7/10

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So the latest whine is that Doctor Who has gotten "preachy"...

 

Set course for Planet Bullshit.

 

This is the series that has constantly said "Earth needs to deal with...", tackled environmental issues and even genocide (Tom Baker's magnificent speech about whether he had the right to kill the Daleks). There have always been messages and deeper themes, and frequently the Doctor has talked down to humans who never seem to learn from their mistakes.

 

So, no, Doctor Who hasn't gotten preachy. It was always there. But I do agree that Orphan 55 was heavy-handed,

Spoiler

by making the orphan planet a future Earth. The Doctor could still have made a good speech about Earth needing to change if, for example, it had been an Earth "colony" that was over-exploited

 

 

EDITED BY JIM

Added some spoiler tags.

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I think the main issue with Orphan 55 was the speech wasn't addressing the companions, as it should have been. It was practically staring into the camera. Praxeus differed by keeping the central environmental message as the theme of the episode, but wove it into the overall narrative. Orphan 55 can still be integrated into the other future stories involving Cassandra, Ravalox etc (they did specifically mention the rich got off the planet before it became Orphan class) But were it told a bit less bluntly, the haters might not have taken such issue with it. I thought the episode was good, until

Spoiler

the Earth reveal

.

 

But yes, Doctor Who and most other Sci-Fi shows have always tackled such socially relevant issues. Look to the [original] Cybermen - How far would you go to cheat death? The take home message I always took them as allegory for.

 

EDITED BY JIM

because it seems we can't stop spoiling thing

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