Batman Arkham Asylum

[one-armed dwarf]

The promise of open world was an equal amount of open endedness in how you would approach things with your sandbox. Which wasn't the case during the Arkham City era as it just became a larger box for more samey content

 

But nowadays I think we've turned right back around on that and OW games do fulfill that promise. eg, just look at the video posted in the Zelda thread.

 

OW Batman should reward brainy players as well, ideally

[Maryokutai]

True, but the irony of it is that the oversaturation of the filler content design ethos from the 360/PS4 era resulted in a lot of people losing interest in the concept at the same it has matured to a point where genuinely good ideas started coming from it. As much as I enjoyed Breath of Wild for example, I still groaned a bit internally when it was rumoured that the next Tomb Raider might be open world.

 

Maybe not the right topic for this though. Still need to play Tears btw.

[Metroid66]

On 06/12/2024 at 08:03, Maryokutai said:

I still groaned a bit internally when it was rumoured that the next Tomb Raider

 

I can see how that might work, as long as there's a chance to discover something mad outside of the campaign, like Noah's ark.... Yes, the idea is forming in my 🧠...

 

This didn't have to go open world as a franchise, but it already had plenty of collection quests because of the Riddler and his infernal riddles. I suppose it makes sense in the context of this world, but they're still just collectables.

 

 

[Maf]

It seems as if their ambition was to always go open world. There’s a secret wall in the game that is even hidden from detective vision, that if you blow it up reveals the map/plans for Arkham City. 
 

I think the Riddler stuff works really well especially in Arkham Asylum because he’s a twisted mind in a labyrinthine mad house. So diving in to each corner or the Asylum and finding/solving/beating the thing is like beating him as well. It’s when they move to open world that it gets kind of trite and very video gamey. 
 

But they are open world Metroidvania games. Without collectibles it would be feel really empty 

[Metroid66]

Moving nicely thru this now, with plenty of gadgets and upgrades to help me along. I forgot how Batman can start to look a bit ragged if you die a lot. It hadn't been an issue until this mighty difficulty spike where the gargoyles in a combat room had been booby trapped and you had to deal with a bunch of armed goons using old fashioned stealth. I died enough here that my batman ended up with a ripped cloak and (bizarrely) a five o'clock shadow 😀.

 

I'd call this good difficulty - where the game kicks you out of your complacency and shows you there are other ways to play. 

 

However this is followed by a bit I always remember not liking back in the day, the croc in the sewer section, which is all a bit gamey tbh, and even includes one of those inverted chase sequences where you have to run towards the camera, and so can't see where your going. Yuck.

 

Anyway, Ivy has gone poison plant crazy at this point, so I think she's next on the list for a bat beat down. 

[Nag]

I actually thought the battle damage to the suit went on story progression... now you've got me doubting myself.😂

[Metroid66]

You might be right. We're talking about a 15 year old game here. That idea just popped into my head from a dusty corner. But then I'm at an age where many strange ideas pop up as if from nowhere on a daily basis.

 

My batman was pretty pristine until that difficulty spike tho.

 

If @Maf reads these last few posts he might know the truth.

[Maf]

I’m sure it’s story related

 

Otherwise your Batman would be nude by now 

[Metroid66]

How the hell have u been accessing my Nexus mods account?

[Metroid66]

Got to the final boss but had to retire after an initial defeat because my thumb was stressed out by the rather combat heavy nature of the endgame. If I ever move to mouse and keyboard it'll be because my right thumb has finally taken the knock after years of hammering square/X in action games.

 

Anyway, I'll beat the big bugger tomorrow. I've done him at least twice before.

 

Also downloaded Arkham Knight just to have a shufti at the graphics that maf was eulogising. Maxed it out and yeah, definitely has a wow factor. Won't be playing it for a while tho. So many games in my backlog and I want to play city first anyway.

[Metroid66]

Done! A nice trip down memory lane that was.

 

Died about 5 times on the final boss. I think the game was just about old enough to still have that old school gameplay approach that some (me) might be a bit out of practice with, like no checkpoints in the battle, and no constantly refilling health bar. You die, you restart.

 

Really enjoyed it and will complete the trilogy over the coming months.

[Maf]

3 minutes ago, Metroid66 said:

Done! A nice trip down memory m I think the game was just about old enough to still have that old school gameplay

GTFO

[one-armed dwarf]

This is definitely one of those things I'm out of touch on, with lots of other stuff of course. But just the way combat happens in a Batman game, and specifically those boss fights, made me hate Asylum. At the time it's one of those things which would probably get you locked up but I think BamHam combat has fallen out of style enough that it doesn't attract as much histrionics to say it out loud as it did before.

 

I do think everything outside of these elements is 10/10 exceptional and a great case of how to use a license in a way that doesn't feel cynical but full of careful and clever decisions. But the BamHam-ing was a real dealbreaker in my getting immersed

[Maf]

Most of the boss fights throughout the series are not particularly good. The best one is the Fire Fly boss fight from Origins. But just because it’s very cinematic. The combat mechanics are built around fighting multiple people and the stealth mechanics are built for swift, 1-hit takedowns. Neither of which lend themselves to good boss fights

 

In Asylum there’s also argument that there’s not enough/good enemy variety, something they solve better with each game

 

The basic combat has always been awesome, though. A lot of people say you just press Y to win. But these are the same people who say you beat Sonic the Hedgehog by just holding right. They’re over reductive to spread their poison 

 

I haven’t looked this up, but I’m pretty sure you can’t beat any enemy in the game by just pressing counter. I think there might be something in the combat system which doesn’t allow an enemy to get to 1hp without being attacked properly. Or something. 
 

The other thing about the combat is it isn’t realistic to put a controller in someone’s hands, put them in ‘danger’, and not have them press buttons. As video game players it is physically impossible to resist playing the game and to press buttons

 

The buttons are awesome as well. And Spider-Man still plays this way. So it’s not dead yet 

[one-armed dwarf]

I forgot that Spudman did it as well, that's a good point but I feel like I remember it being more decisive-feeling in that. Like whatever it was about the movement mechanics made that the whole flow of the combat that everything else was built on top of. My issue with Bats is there's a disconnect to me between what I'm pressing and what Batman is doing, just makes me feel totally estranged from it all, unlike the former. It feels like I'm doing nothing

[Nag]

I've got to admit that for me Batman is still top tier in combat... it hits the sweet spot of not needing to think about spacial awareness too much but still having to think about how best to take down the given enemies... in a way Arkham Knight gave you almost too many options in combat, given those choices I'll invariably make the wrong one.

[Maryokutai]

I rather like the combat, even did those bonus combat missions back in the day (though I might have given up on one, IIRC there was a rather devilish one in there). The super quick flipping between enemies the higher your combo counter goes and the adrenaline rush of pushing it higher and avoiding getting hit – it's mechanically very basic but it always felt good in execution, except for Knight which pumped up enemies to the point where you're just constantly playing a real-time Pokémon battle instead of properly fighting (i.e. constantly being forced to use that one tool that's weak against that one enemy, there's no real flow there anymore IMO, but it's been a while).

 

I agree that the bosses are rather mediocre, but I've always had a soft spot for the Freeze 'fight' in City. That was genuinely clever design build on the foundations of the game instead of doing a cheesy setpiece.

[Metroid66]

Yeah, I think the combat is great. I do like a parry, but I think that comes later in the series.

 

I think they nailed the essence of a supreme, slightly superheroic,  combatist. I mean, why would batman be able to pull off those counters?

 

Not sure why the guy in mad max could do it, but that's another story.

[Maf]

1 hour ago, Maryokutai said:

I rather like the combat, even did those bonus combat missions back in the day (though I might have given up on one, IIRC there was a rather devilish one in there). The super quick flipping between enemies the higher your combo counter goes and the adrenaline rush of pushing it higher and avoiding getting hit – it's mechanically very basic but it always felt good in execution

This + you get bonus for combat variety for using the all the gadgets and ending on a ground slam attack. So you’re manoeuvring through the group, trying to use all the gadgets, trying to use all the environmental attacks, trying to get perfect attacks, trying to use the right tactic on the right enemy, get the right counters, deal with those fucking knife guys, not get hit, and end on a ground pound. 
 

No one thing is that hard but it’s layering it on top of each other becomes a really difficult, make it up as you go rhythm game 

8 minutes ago, Metroid66 said:

I think they nailed the essence of a supreme, slightly superheroic,  combatist. I mean, why would batman be able to pull off those counters?.

I know this is beyond the scope of the game but Batman is the most bullshit, plot armour super hero of all time. He has the best super power of them all and that’s “Because it’s Batman” which gives him the excuse to be able to do anything 

[Nag]

Playing this for the umpteenth time and having unlocked a lot of the bios it's really hit home thise time just how shit some of the villains are in Gotham City.