Microsoft Consoles and Updates

[Maryokutai]

Sony had Horizon, Ratchet, Ghostwire Tokyo and Kena for me. The latter two are multiplatform.

 

Going by numbers I think Microsoft had the same amount or maybe a few more that interest me, but unlike Sony's games they didn't look like next-gen titles, which is a bummer.

 

I think I'm just going to play Halo for free in low-res with shitty framerate on mx Xbox One before my GP subscription runs out in December.

[Maryokutai]

Yeah, Horizon 2 was just cutscenes basically. Or maybe even an in-engine Trailer like that Forza thing Microsoft showed today. You never hear the "no gameplay!" criticism on that side of the fence though...

 

Oh well. At least 2020 will be good to clear our backlogs.

[Maf]

7 minutes ago, Maryokutai said:

 

I think I'm just going to play Halo for free in low-res with shitty framerate on mx Xbox One before my GP subscription runs out in December.

Yup. I’m sure there’s technical stuff I would be missing out on playing Halo Infinite on my X like ray tracing and whatever, but honestly I don’t care about that stuff. Maybe it’s the stream but I’ve already played games on my current Xbox that look better than Halo looks on the SX. 
 

Maybe that’s different when seeing it on a screen in front of me but over the stream it didn’t look that impressive. 

[DANGERMAN]

very, very little for me, but I've long since accepted Microsoft's line up isn't really aimed at me. Hopefully the Remedy game is good, and The Medium could be decent. Obsidian seem to be making Skyrim. I'm not sure what else I see myself playing, but some may interest me more as I see more of them

 

The State of Decay bit made me burst out laughing. I just can't be afraid of a zombie deer ffs

[Maf]

Looked like they were trying to imitate that Natalie Portman movie

 

Also this is pretty nuts

 

https://venturebeat.com/2020/07/23/ori-and-the-will-of-the-wisps-runs-at-120-fps-on-xbox-series-x/

 

Quote

This version of Ori for Series X will run at 120 fps at 4K resolution. Developer Moon Studios will also use premium audio technology to give the game’s sound and music a boost. This improved version of Will of the Wisps will be available later this year.

 

[DisturbedSwan]

Xboxygen: Halo Infinite footage was running on a PC
 

Quote

343i says that the gameplay demo we saw ran on a pc and is alike what to expect on Xbox Series X.

 

[one-armed dwarf]

Lots of people spent that Trump stimulus check on gaming stuff.

[Maf]

That bit in the video when it was Sega and they showed blue skies and a beach and the camera was moving fast I was like...is it time.

 

And then no, not even nearly ?‍♂️ 
 

PSO2 looks cool, though, I would play that. 

[Maryokutai]

Thinking a bit more about yesterdays I think it's safe to say that for me, Gamepass kind of ruined Microsoft's first-party lineup. If you look at it, almost all of their own titles feature some kind of multiplayer aspect. Halo is a live service game, Everwild will be MP, Forza as a racing game is a no-brainer for that, Grounded is MP and even some prominently featured Third-Party-Deals showed off the likes of PSO, Crossfire X and Destiny 2. Meanwhile, Hellblade only gets talked about and Psychonauts is obviously being developed on a tight budget.

 

In turn, this also explains their focus on cross-gen. More systems = more users = more Gamepass subscriptions. Either one between Fable and Avowed will also feature some sort of substantial MP modes I'm sure. And all of this makes me question how much truth there is in Spencer's comment about every studio having complete creative control. I don't believe it anymore.

 

I will, at some point, buy a Series X since having access to up to 4 generations of games on one system is really good and because it will potentially feature the best-looking versions of multiplat games. But considering that they used to sell me their system with their own properties - Halo, Fable, heck, even Xbox One with Killer Instinct - then this is just a disappointing development all around. I don't care too much about most Sony IPs but for me they certainly have a more interesting vision and concept at the moment. Microsoft right now feels more like what UbiSoft would do if they made a console and that's not a compliment. 

[Maf]

Not sure how you got to Gamepass being the problem. It isn’t like Xbox have never done multiplayer before. If anything their legacy is Xbox Live.

 

I do think they see Gamepass as the great unifier for any place someone chooses to play a Xbox game. Now Gamepass is the ecosystem they want players in and everything else is just a portal to get them there. 
 

But they must also care about single player. Sony beat the pants of them this gen and they did that with mostly single player games if talking 1st party vs 1st party. I’m sure Xbox is aware of that. And last night Xbox spent 15 minutes on their biggest game which was all single player footage. 
 

The “problem” with their approach this gen and I think reflected in their showcase is building games for current gen and not next gen only, a lot of their actual next gen games being minimum 2 years away, and just not having many big, mass market hitters. Halo is the only “AAA” game they have working right now and for the foreseeable. 

 

Though not sure what this has to do with the subscription? ? If anything the best thing there is to say about yesterday’s presentation is at least you get all that for the price of Gamepass. Incredible value for money in that regard. 

[Maryokutai]

11 minutes ago, Maf said:

If anything the best thing there is to say about yesterday’s presentation is at least you get all that for the price of Gamepass. Incredible value for money in that regard. 

 

Yes, but where does that value come from? Game Pass wouldn't be sustainable if Microsoft approached their first-party lineup like Sony does. Imagine letting a studio work for six years on a game that people can play through in two weeks, which was the case with Last of Us 2. So instead of paying 60 bucks to play it, they're going to buy a month of Game Pass to play it. And if all your games are build like this, which they are in Sony's case, you're just making loss after loss if you keep putting them on Game Pass. It's a model that's only sustainable if a lot of people keep their subscriptions going for a long time. And the easiest way to accomplish this is to get as many multiplayer/GAAS games on there as possible. There's no way you could fill people's desires with pure singleplayer games all the time in a world with limited time, money and manpower to build those games.

 

And at least from my perspective I think yesterday hammered this down quite a bit. Yes, they showed a glimpse of Halo's campaign. But they simultaneously gave an interview to IGN about supporting Halo for ten (!) years. I doubt that's ten years of SP content.

 

Time will tell of course. I'm just very weary of where they're going with all this.

Also, to make sure this isn't misunderstood, I'm not saying it's a bad model. It's just absolutely, completely, not what I personally want from a console and/or their first-party games.

[Maf]

I think the value of GP actually comes from a refresh of single player games every month. That’s what I like about it anyway. Buying a subscription for all these games on the service and then they all become GaaS doesn’t make sense. For starters they would cannibalise each other and It’s not like people play multiple GaaS all the time. 
 

I get that Gamepass makes sense financially for Xbox to make live games for their on going service but I think they would be foolish to make all their games that way. Also I bet it kind of works like gym memberships. People might sign up for a single player game and then just let it roll. 
 

GaaS does fit with Gamepass so if big 3rd party games like Destiny or Crossfire (But again they showed single player for this so clearly even Crossfire cares about having SP) want on the service it makes sense. But not sure how that effects the first party development.

 

I don’t expect Halo to become Sea of Thieves. I would expect it to take the now CoD model where there is a big multiplayer component that they update with seasons or whatever. But they’ve always leaned really hard on Halo’s single player, too. I don’t expect that to change. 

 

Going through the list all the 1st party games they either had multiplayer before or still don’t. The new games it’s hard to say in what capacity they have multiplayer. Maybe Fable becomes an MMO but who knows. Grounded is squarely multiplayer focused but that’s only 1 game.

 

I don’t know. I don’t see it. To me it looks like Xbox just doing what Xbox do in terms of SP/MP focus. 

[DisturbedSwan]

57 minutes ago, Maryokutai said:

It's just absolutely, completely, not what I personally want from a console and/or their first-party games.

This is pretty much where I’ve been most of the gen. I used to love Microsoft’s output on 360 but since then my tastes have changed first of all and secondly they just don’t make many AAA SP games anymore which are primarily my jam. 

[mfnick]

Just got around to watching this.

 

Halo looks shit and open world, yawn.

 

Forza looks incredible but no actual gameplay and they’re saying it’s very early in development so sounding like it’s not going to be there at launch - effectively killing my need to get this console at launch. Which is great in a way as it gives me longer to save up. 
 

Everwild has a great style to it, no idea what it actually is though... 

 

I’d be interested in trying Ori at 120hz but bought my TV 6 months too early  . Ah well. 
 

Stalker 2 - that’s my shit! I’ve always been really fascinated with Chernobyl so a game in that setting? Count me the fuck in. Always wanted to play the original and Expansion years ago but never had a PC capable of running it. Could be years away yet & no gameplay again though. ?

Interested in “The Gunk”. Another I have no idea what the actual gameplay will be like though. 
 

The Medium looks ace! Don’t know if it’ll be for me though, I’ve never got on with games which have you swapping dimensions and shit like that. Apart from that Titanfall 2 level, but that was kept nice and simple. The minute you add some puzzle solving to it I’m out.

That was it for me.

Sonys was a lot better. Not sure what I’m going to do about which console I’ll be getting first now. I was 100% confident Forza would be a release title but since it’s not my plans of buying a Series X have gone. Guess I’ll wait and see how far out it is and buy a PS5 first if it’s another year or so. 
 

 

As for the Game Pass discussion. At the minute it’s the best thing that’s happened to games for a while. But I can definitely see how it may change how games are developed to be even more games as a servicey. That’s been happening for a while though since they realised they can increase their profits by 100’s of millions if they take off. 
If Microsoft Gmes Studios aren’t allowed to make big, sprawling SP games because they’re not Game Pass friendly it would be a huge shame and at that point I’ll start slagging it off. Until then I’m going to enjoy it. 

[one-armed dwarf]

Digital Foundry 

 

 

 

I wonder if those expansion cards can be opened up and it's just a M2 SSD in there or is it way more 'custom' like they say. With the horribly overpriced 360 drives you could dismantle them and it was just a shitty laptop drive charged at x10 markup

 

[Maf]

I’m going to say this the one time and then move on but the idea Xbox had a bad showcase or Halo is bad because of Gamepass is fucking absurd. Lets’s break it down because clearly people need a reality check. 

 

Halo is not being supported for 10 years because of Gamepass. It’s being treated as a live game because THAT’S WHAT ALL THE BIGGEST GAMES IN THE WORLD ARE. Fortnite, Apex, CoD, Overwatch, Battlegrounds. All of the biggest shooters in the world are being made like this with season and season passes and built to last a long time. The idea that the Halo single player mode is being bad because of this is a fucking reach and a half. The idea the story mode won’t be supported properly is also really crazy. Guess what CoD has a new game coming this year, but Warzone isn’t going anywhere. There is no reason to think Halo won’t do the same. And if you need history as proof what was Halo 5’s big feature? A big, team based, card based multiplier mode. Why? Because in 2015 you couldn’t fucking move for cards or card packs in multiplayer modes. They’re just following the trend. The idea that this is because of Gamepass is some real tin foil hat craziness.  Will the single player be good? Who the fuck knows but you can bet your bottom dollar you can expect to see a Battle Royale mode land next year. 
 

The only other 3 games they showed which were first party that will definitely be multiplayer is Forza - which always had it. State of Decay - that always had it. And Grounded, which is one game. And if Xbox didn’t make a kids focused Fortnite-like game to give their new console the best chance it would probably be considered irresponsible considering how far they are behind. 

And here is where we need to group the knowns and the unknown’s. Because if you run down the list there are a bunch of games where we have a good idea of what they are. Psychonauts 2, Tell Me Why, Ori 2 port, Outerworlds expansion and Hellblade. I don’t really think the theme of that list needs to be spelled out.

 

What we don’t know. Everwild, Avowed, and Fable. Maybe these games will have some live aspect or will be totally live games - but you don’t know that. How can you be negative on games when you don’t even know what they are yet? You can be negative about the fact they didn’t tell you what they are but what is that to do with Gamepass? Realistically all of these games are going to be fantasy RPG’s of some description. You really think Microsoft wants to makes them all occupy the exact same space as in a live game and triple up on this shit? You really think that’s the market they want to corner? I can not say either, but reasonably how do you reach any other conclusion than ‘no’.

 

The idea that Gamepass is the fault for a underwhelming video showcase is just trying to connect dots looking for an excuse. You want the reason why their video is disappointing it is very, very simple. Because they either showed you predictable shit or shit you’ve never heard of and didn’t explain what they are. So you’re left scratching your head saying, that doesn’t look great and I don’t know what that is. Which does not make for a good showcase.

 

Lastly, separately, I’m not trying to tell anyone you should like what you saw or the video was good. I didn’t think it was great either. But it wasn’t underwhelming for lack of single player or single player components. If you run down that list I made in the other thread you’ll find at least 11 games are strictly single player or have large single player focus. The reason you don’t like them is just because they don’t look very good. But hey if what you want is exciting, action packed single player only games then guess what there’s this thing called a Playstation 5 you should probably get one of those.

 

I just had to get that out and I’m done

[DANGERMAN]

the Digital Foundry video does the conference a huge favour. It looks a lot better at 4k 60, some fairly average looking games at first showing look a lot better now

 

 

@Maf  I don't know if it's your intention and if it's aimed at anyone in here, but your post comes off as a bit dickish

[Maryokutai]

4 hours ago, Maf said:

Because if you run down the list there are a bunch of games where we have a good idea of what they are. Psychonauts 2, Tell Me Why, Ori 2 port, Outerworlds expansion and Hellblade. I don’t really think the theme of that list needs to be spelled out.

 

And how many of those are built on the same budgets as Horizon, Last of Us or Tsushima? Or even Halo or Forza for that matter.

 

I've never said everything was black and white and there certainly was a bit for everyone in that show. But crazy is thinking that Game Pass isn't their main focus at the moment. They want to sell as many subscriptions as they can to as many people and to them the platform is just one of a few ways of doing that. Phil has been talking forever about bringing Game Pass to Sony and Nintendo systems and only recently said they stopped working on that since the competition isn't interested (obviously). 

 

Again, nothing bad per se. But again, not my cup of tea.

[one-armed dwarf]

Yeah MS are very clearly more invested in getting more people onto their ecosystem. They've been doing this for ages already on PC since way back with Gears 4 I think. "Play Anywhere" and all the Xbox apps on Windows (which are horrible). They're just continuing that strategy now by supporting two gens of machines. I really don't think we'll see a LOU or Ghost calibur title from them for a while. Maybe Hellblade could be but Ninja don't do big games I think.

 

The main message I took from MS' show was 'don't worry about Xbox Series X, your PC is good enough'. Or your Xbox One X if you have one of those. A weirdly passive pitch by them and it feels intentional

[Maf]

It’s like I haven’t been talking about they want you in their ecosystem and not on their platform a million times before. They don’t want to be Xbox they want to be Netflix. The point of debate is does Gamepass effect the types of games they are making and news flash, the games you are asking for they have not done since the OG Xbox.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Xbox_Game_Studios_video_games

 

The closest they ever got to what Sony is doing right now is Alan Wake or Quantum Break. Games that clearly didn’t do well enough for them. When you go down the list of big, consistent AAA single player offerings it is Halo, Gears, Forza, Fable, Crackdown. Most of which they’re still doing. Everything else is a bunch of one offs they paid 3rd parties to make like Sunset Overdrive, Lost Odyssey, etc. 
 

All the same shit they are doing right now. Except they paid even more money to buy studios outright this time. Why? Because they need to rival Sony’s Worldwide studios stuff which they just could not do with what little internal studios they had before. Especially after losing Bungie, Lionhead and Epic doing Gears.

 

If anything the one thing they’re missing is the stream of downloadable games they used to have. They still do stuff like that with Ori and Cuphead, but the amount is significantly reduced. 
 

AAA single player only, narrative heavy Sony style games they have never done, though. Shit Sony didn’t even really start doing it that much until PS4. Uncharted and LoU are big influences on all of their studios. 
 

This idea that Xbox has deserted you and not doing the thing they used to do is a dream. It’s just because Sony is kicking so much ass with this type of content that it’s standing out more. If the problem is well they should do more of this then yes of course. But that would be a change to their track record. Currently no more single player stuff is being sacrificed for online only games. It’s the same mix as always. Just go through the list. 

What has changed is they are not doing it very well. I think because they just aren’t ready, the studios they bought are finishing up games they were already working on or are still very early in development and the cross gen drawback. But they can’t let Sony have another year or 2 years head start on them. That’s suicide. 

 

For me the only thing they are doing well is Gamepass. They know it’s the only unique thing they got as well which is why they have built their whole new world around it. But they’re not trying to stack Gamepass with live games or GaaS games. That is not to say future games won’t have online and connectivity stuff, or they won’t welcome 3rd party live games on to their service, but there is no basis for saying first party is lacking in the single player front anymore than they have done for the past decade and a half.