New TV

[one-armed dwarf]

When I get a house I look forward to a giant ass TV being one of the first frivolous things I get after all the super expensive grown up boring things like appliances and flooring and shit, and using that thing just for films and games

[Pikman]

I want this too!
I'd like to get a 77" but they are pretty massive, I think we'll end up with 65" (which isn't really giant)

[mfnick]

I want a 65” next (55 at minute). I am worried it may be too big though. Might make the stutter even more noticeable as well which would kill me. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, mfnick said:

I want a 65” next (55 at minute). I am worried it may be too big though. Might make the stutter even more noticeable as well which would kill me. 

I went 65 on my current screen. Got an average size room and for me its perfect.  

[Pikman]

Yeah, I think 65 is the sweet spot (ours isd 3.5m in front of us). 77 is just epic though - I think it's also getting too large for SD content though (I don't know).

[mfnick]

@Nag I’ve recently just found out about a Samsung TV feature called Gamemotion+ it’s really meant to sort 30fps issues out, especially on their OLEDs. But I hear some conflicting info too. Have you tried it? What’s it like? 
 

I know yours isn’t an OLED and you’re not as sensitive to frame rates but still, interested in your experience with it. 

[Nag]

I've not used it... tbf I'm not sure mine even has it, I can't actually remember how old mine is now...😂

 

Reading up on it it sounds like some kind of post picture image enhancement (inserting extra frames in to the image)... to me it sounds like a bad thing but that's just my opinion. 

 

Sorry I can't be more help @mfnick

[mfnick]

Yea it’s just another motion smoothing tech but I’m hearing people who really struggle with 30fps stutter like me say it’s a game changer. But others it does nothing for. 
Wish I could just try it.

 

Ah well, cheers anyway. 

[Maryokutai]

Those things usually add input lag though, so while the moniker makes it seem like a cool idea for games it's likely one of the worst fields of application. Unless maybe for some super slow-paced games that still have a lot of image scrolling like city builders and such.

[mfnick]

17 minutes ago, Maryokutai said:

Those things usually add input lag though,

That Samsung one adds hardly any. It’s around 10ms which is less than most TVs manage anyway. The LG equivalent (supposedly) doesn’t work as well but adds about 60ms so there’s a huge difference. 
 

If a game is running at 30fps the input response isn’t usually a priority in gameplay anyway otherwise it’d be made to be 60fps instead. 

[Nag]

Depends how much it adds I suppose... Samsung tv's generally have crazy good times in that regard when in game mode so the trade off is probably worth it... especially as I don't think Nick is a twitch style gamer.

[mfnick]

My full achievements on Super Meat Boy, Katana Zero, Trials, beating Sekiro etc. says different 😉 I’m not an online gamer though which is where it seems to matter most. But they’re 60 anyway so don’t need that function. 

[DANGERMAN]

Also he games from a hot tub and only appears on camera as an anime wolf 

[Maf]

I was googling Game Motion + out of interest. It sounds like the LG OLED judder/smoothing settings when maxed out. I really dislike that personally. It’s like the soap opera effect on overdrive with weird artifacting around the edges of characters and stuff. On the LG it smooths/blends too much together and it looks wrong. Even though it’s on a slider, from what I remember it basically doesn’t do anything until it does. So you move it up to 6/10 has no effect, then move it to 7/10 and it’s yuck

 

Maybe Game Motion + is different I just did a few minutes search. But looking at some responses from Reddit, etc, this is what it seems like to me
 

From what it sounds like @mfnick is not the frame rate/motion technology that’s the issue but display. OLED’s and to my knowledge (though I’ve never seen one outside a showroom) QLEDs all use this sample and hold technique. So any TV that does that has super fast response times, but is like too quick for 30fps

(even though I feel like 30fps has been better because motion smoothing/blending in games has gotten better, but maybe that’s just me)

 

Unfortunately it seems like most modern TV’s are using this, and until that changes low frame rate issues is going to have stutter. Maybe look for a really banging LCD instead? But whatever you look at, I’d check if the panel does this sample and hold thing. Because if it does I think you will be unhappy with it.

 

Even though it’s expensive. The only other solution I can think of is get a PC. You always hit 60fps somehow. But prepare for bullshit 😞

[one-armed dwarf]

Yeah the problem I have with this stuff is the inconsistency. When I got my CX that stuff was turned on by default, I checked out ffvii and was weirded out by the fact that Cloud 'moved' smooth but his sword didn't, because it doesn't know how to apply the smoothing to that sort of movement. With Zelda it adds lots of weird buzzing around the character and the image looks broken

 

That is why the frame generation stuff on PC is treated like such a big deal, cause it's using AI to reduce these issues and it makes iterative improvements with each new driver update, though it is locked to very expensive hardware. Not every game is flawless with it on though, and you need a high 'base' framerate for it to not feel really laggy which limits its value. It's not for 'fixing' 30fps

 

There's no situation tho where I'd agree that motion smoothing on a TV makes things look better, it just corrupts the image in motion so much. It adds an uncanniness to movies. The one I mentioned with Zelda is cause people online were like 'TOTK looks amazing with motion smoothing', or whatever it's called on CX. But it doesn't imo, it looks really bad. Same ppl said to turn on vivid mode tho so that should have been a clue. 

 

I think maf is right in that if the problem is that bad for you, and you mention it a lot, you've got to ask yourself if you're really enjoying OLED screens or if you want to stick a desktop on it with modular components that can be upgraded where you can push the games to higher frames and scale things to a budget and not be bound to a black box. That or drop OLED I guess

[Maf]

The OLED stutter only bothers me sometimes depending on the game and the draw distances. Because the thinner the thing (I’m thinking distant mountain peaks or even lamp posts) you see like 3 of them lol. 
 

But I’ve played a lot of modern console games at 30fps because - the thing I talk about a lot is how bad the resolution is on new games - but the games I’ve played have held up fine for me at 30. I’m thinking the newest Star Wars, Dead Space remake, Horizon Forbidden West. I’m not sure if I’m over it or what but these games had 0 issues for me. I think games are getting better motion handling themselves or something. Maybe that’s bullshit but my TV hasn’t changed, yet the stutter is not as bad

 

I wasn’t thinking frame gen would fix the problem with PC. But you can lower everything to medium at 1440p for most modern games and get a good console like experience at 60fps. You also don’t need to break the bank on a 4090 for 60fps, as long as you don’t mind compromising elsewhere

 

But this frame rate thing sounds like such a problem this would be the way to go, I think

 

The only thing about PC is you’re swapping performance for general graphics instability. I find PC games just have so many little graphics glitches and weirdness compared to console. Very distracting. Sometimes more than oled stutter. Also using a PC on TV is fine, just more hassle than pressing a button on controller and going 

 

But nothing’s perfect. Have to pick what piss you off least 

[one-armed dwarf]

I've not experienced graphics instability at all tbh, that's not inherently a thing with PC at all, or you're talking about something I don't understand

[Maf]

I get lots of minor graphics bugs on PC games. A texture doesn’t load, a shadow is flickering, LoD pop in way more noticeable (although the last one could be because sitting closer)

Very rarely anything huge but just minor things. And I think because I’m playing on such expensive hardware that the blemishes stand out more

 

Sort of inverse with what I get with Switch. Because I know it’s “cheap” when it has issues I’m like oh well what do you expect. But on a 4090 I’m like “Why did that object that 1 second longer to load in than everything else bah bah”

[mfnick]

Yea I’d like to just get a super powerful PC but that means buying all my games again, just general hassle and bad PC ports seem to be a more common issue again. Plus those micro stutters for shader compilation sound really irritating. 
 

I may just get an amazing top of the line LCD as has already been mentioned. 
 

I kind of hope the rumours about a super powerful Xbox are true. I’ve got big issues with Xbox at the moment but I would be willing to spend a lot on a super powerful console so I get PC like performance but console usability . 

[Nag]

About the only thing you'll lose if you go for a top end Qled is Dolby vision which isn't supported by Samsung... and if it's affecting your enjoyment of games this much I'd say that's worth it.